Dogsey

Lol !!

An e collar delivers volts without amps ... in other words a static shock NOT an electric shock.

Most people do not understand the difference between volts and amps. They just react hysterically without knowing what they are talking about!!

I'm not being hysterical.
A sudden pain is just that, whatever the source.
IMO, e-collars are not a tool that should be freely available for the general public to misuse.

I remember getting static shocks off the boys buggies when they were small first time I wasn't expecting it and boy it was a shock and hurt. This mostly happened in Woolworths but other shops sometimes also.
I became ready for them in the future but cannot say the experience was pleasant didn't make me hysterical either but still unpleasant and I was halfway ready for them after the first time.
Dogs are never ready I would imagine and having a few static shocks myself would not like to inflict them on anyone else or my dog.

I am totally confused here. So now we are saying that even though static shock is a natural phenomenon that we all experience every day ... including our dogs . .. somehow nature is fine and benign but anyone who uses an e collar is the devil incarnate. Baffled, bewildered and bemused am I

You do not experience them every day. I haven't experienced one for a long time. Use to have a car once also that gave me static shocks off the door. 1) I no longer use buggies haven't for years and 2) I no longer own the car. No longer get static shocks might at some point who knows ?????

So not sure why you are confused Gnasher because I sure as hell ain't static or otherwise shocks hurt expecting them or not.

E collars work because they deliver a painful shock to the dog. I have seen them used a number of times and tried one on my sheep chasing GSD once. Never again. Horrible devices. Of course there are many ways in which trainers, handlers, owners can inflict pain and instill fear into their dogs and sadly those people will continue to do that - with or without ecollars, but I am glad they are being banned in England, as they have in Scotland and Wales.

I experience static Shocks every day at work from the lifts ... sometimes from car doors, the trolleys I use to cart notes up and down to Clinic, even off Ben's whiskers once!! I must have an electrifying personality!!

I guess one size does not fit all ... although I have never inflicted pain or fear onto any animal of mine ...

If anyone uses anything to induce any kind of pain upon an animal or another human are they not acting inHUMANely? ... .... Yes? No?
So am I correct in assuming that emotional pain is pain nonetheless. Am I correct in assuming that mental/psychological pain is pain nonetheless? Am I correct in assuming that pain is pain whether it's, mental/psychological, emotional/spiritual and/or physical?
If so we are all guilty of inducing pain to train our animals and our children and even new employees. Yes?
I face and survive static electricity shocks every day. Working with heavy equipment, petting my dogs, brushing my childrens' and grandchildrens' hair, working with plastic, walking on carpets, doing laundry(I dislike them dryer sheets). And working with electronics does actually quite often give a good high voltage and high amp shock that literally weakens my knees and gives my heart a kick.

My dogs appear to quite literally hate being indoors.
My dogs appear to quite literally hate being crated.
My dogs appear to quite lie rally hate kennels.
I refuse to put them through the "Growing pains" of becoming "accustomed"'to things they hate and do not require in their life/lives.
My dogs enjoy being able to physically visit each other.
My dogs enjoy running.
My dogs enjoy eating raw meat.
Sled dogs can get fiesty with each other sometimes. They are a more natural/ancient breed that still has a tendancy to "assert" hierarchy. I utilize positive training/conditioning to train my dogs to do their job , which according to their body language and facial expressions they appear to quite enjoy. That said I am not above raising my voice and actually get physical(stepping in between and grabbing them by their ruffs and raising my voice above their's[get their attn and physically affirm I mean when I say,"No fighting."]) if I need to for safety sake.
As for electric shock collars.....
......I personally feel "crating" your dog for 8 hrs is a horrific thing to do to a dog whilst you go to your 9-5er.?????.....!!I personally would not ever do that to any of my dogs, ever.

My post I know will confuse some people. Especially those who chose to see only this and/or that. There is a big picture.
HAGD

Musher - your post has not confused me at all. I agree absolutely with the point that you are putting across. It is great to talk to you once again - how are you??