Dogsey

sandgrubber, over the years of Dogsey we have heard your argument time and time again by those who promote the use of the e.collar, it still does not wash, if you have to resort to a "stim" to train a dog then, maybe you should not own one.

Abuse of any kind is intolerable, but this thread is about e.collars, so that`s what we are discussing,

I don`t think anyone is missing any point at all, the dog in question is not the first or will be the last dog to suffer this condition.... its a wonder others have managed to control the condition without resorting to using such a device.

I had a dog that had an eye removed, he wanted to scratch at the wound all day long, did I resort to using an e.collar to stop him, of cause I did not....and as surprising as it may seem, we controlled the situation by being vigilant.

Azz: i
We tried an Elizabethan Collar - Ben still managed to eat his bottom. We tried a baskerville muzzle, Ben still managed to use that as a tool to assault his bottom. I am sorry but I am not someone who can do without sleep. I would have had to stay awake for 24 hours a day, and not work, not do anything but stay with Ben the whole 24 hours without falling asleep for God knows how long to prevent him from biting his bottom.

Jackie: did you stay awake 24/7 for your dog until his eye wound healed? I bet you did not.

I am sickened quite frankly by the responses I have received. Clearly those of you who say that I should not have used an e collar on Ben to save his life are not dog lovers.

Chris: we were faced with the following stark choices:

1. Not to have any sleep at all - or at the very least sleep in shifts - for probably weeks, in order to stop Ben assaulting his bottom with his muzzle at night. Don't know about you, but I have to work ... sleep is actually quite important don't you know.

2. Just admit defeat, and let the dog carry on, eventually ending up with him having to be put down because the vet was quite clear in that if we did not manage to stop him biting or rubbing his backside, he would suffer unbearably and would end up sooner or later being put down as an act of mercy.

3. Give him 2 little nicks of the e collar - no more than a flea bite, and probably not even as painful in order to stop him.

This is truly a no-brainer.

And will you people please STOP talking about shocks. E collars do NOT GIVE ELECTRIC SHOCKS. You need to find out the facts before making wild sweeping statements.

Jackie in particular: please make sure how you achieved keeping a vigil on your dog 24 hours a day without getting any sleep. If you tell me that actually you didn't do this, you did get some sleep, then clearly you were not being very vigilant.

With Ben, he was literally tearing at his bottom constantly without any rest. The sofa where he lies was constantly covered in blood and anal fluid, the whole house stank, he was in a truly terrible state. Remember he is a low % wolf cross and they are notorious for being excessive chewers with wounds. Elizabethan collars are no match for a determined wolfie boy like Ben, they are so wiley they can manipulate them as easy as saying pouf - useless.

What did your vet advise? There are other types of collars or combinations of collars you could have tried, like a neck brace/bite-not collar http://www.bitenot.com

I'm sorry but I don't think all other options were exhausted or even tried - purely because as has been pointed out already; that many, many other dogs suffer this and recover fine without electric shocks.

Azz - it is not an electric shock!!! There is no current involved - an e collar works by causing the muscles to contract, nothing to do with electricity!

I am having a look at the link you have supplied - thanks for that.

O bloody hell - why do my posts keep vanishing!

I will start again.

Azz - I have followed your link, thanks very much for that, it looks great - except it would not stop Ben! He would be able to manipulate that by using a wall or immoveable object as a balance, and would somehow twist himself round to chew his tail and his anus. In addition, it does not prevent chewing and licking of the lower legs and feet - something that Ben also does but which I did not bother to mention because it is nowhere as serious as the perianal fistulas because we are not talking about breach of mucous membrane with these areas.

As serious as hot spots and wet eczema is on these areas, it is as least dealable with - the perianal fistulas are far far more serious for obvious reasons. This device, as marvellous as it does look, would not have stopped Ben eating his backside. Clearly, the vet would have suggested it if he thought it would have helped.

And please do stop saying that e collars give electric shocks. This is totally inaccurate, they do not.

I'm going to bed now, but I would still love to hear any more options that people can offer of how we could have saved Ben's life. This is not being melodramatic, this is hard fact.

Google perianal fistulas and look at the pictures. You will then understand the problem we were dealing with.

Can I ask, Gnasher, what did you try apart from gadgets? In other words, what training techniques did you try if any and how consistently did you use them?

Chris ... I don't understand. We are not talking about training techniques here, we are talking about having to stop Ben from eating his backside. Do you know how serious perinatal fistulas are? There was no time for anything other than stopping Ben biting and rubbing and clawing at his bottom. There is no training, no device other than e collar that would stop him ... Other than staying awake for 24 hours for a long time until the fistulas healed and stopped stinging and irritating. As an ex sufferer of haemorrhoids, I can remember the intense desire to itch the area ... And that is nothing compared to the irritation and burning pain of fistulas.

The American college of veterinary surgeons state categorically on their website that an e collar should be used during the healing process of perinatal fissures - I wonder why?