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Five arrested and six dogs seized as part of dog fighting crackdown

...has received 16 comments (page 2)
mjfromga
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22-05-2014, 08:52 AM
We'll just have to agree to disagree. I think some of the dogs enjoy it and seem more relaxed after doing it. This is after looking at them actually do it, so I'm not sure... but they didn't seem stressed out by it. Physical exercise doesn't have to stimulate your mental abilities to be beneficial and/or enjoyable.

BTW, I'd not call jogging on a treadmill at a reasonably slow pace "high impact". They aren't really running or moving quickly. I'd think adrenaline would come into play more when the dog is out and his senses are stimulated, not in his home at a slow pace in familiar surroundings. But that is just me.

There is no such thing as endless energy, nor did I say or imply there was. High energy and "endless" energy are not the same thing.

As for "bull terrier types" grouping all those breeds, from what I understand, on a more worldwide scale... Staffies, English Bull Terriers, Pit Bull terriers (and sometimes Cane Corso, American Bulldogs, and a few other breeds that are confused for pit bull terriers) are all classified as "pit bulls" and not "bull terrier types".

"Pit bull" is not a breed, but a "type" of dog appearance. But it makes sense that in the UK, they are more grouped as "bull terrier types" since the term "pit bull" is taboo all the way around.
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Florence
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22-05-2014, 09:29 AM
Words are just words, there is no law about what to call a dog. Truth is, they all have the same ancestors and were bred for the same characteristics. I know you like to go on about what exactly an 'American Pit Bull' is and that a mere 'Pit Bull' isn't the same thing, but really it doesn't matter what you call them. They were all once bred for fighting, and they are all bull dogs and they all have terrier blood.
The term 'bull terrier type' describes just that: a bull and terrier type dog.
Wiki for this:
Bull type Terriers: The Bull and Terrier types were originally combinations of bulldogs and terriers as general mixed breed bull-baiting and pit dogs. In the late 19th century, they were refined into separate breeds that combined terrier and bulldog qualities. Except for Boston Terriers, they are generally included in kennel clubs' Terrier Group. Some breeders have bred modern Bull type terrier breeds, such as the Bull Terrier, American Pit Bull Terrier and Staffordshire Bull Terrier, into suitable family dogs and show terriers. These breeds and other descendants of the Bull and Terrier types, such as the Asian Gull Terr, are among the dog breeds still raised for illegal dog fighting.
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mjfromga
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Posts: 5,680
Female 
 
22-05-2014, 10:38 AM
They were actually not originally bred to fight each other, dog fighting came after bull and bear baiting became outlawed. Also, the "American pit bull terrier" actually originates back to England, which is interesting since they are banned in the UK, but a well known fact nonetheless.

Bull type terrier and "pit bulls" are synonymous in retrospect after reading that and then reading this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pit_bull

Not a breed in and of itself, but a "type" of dog instead that includes traits of a certain group and/or several breeds. Because of that can easily be misjudged by sight and blaming ONE breed (the American Pit Bull Terrier) for a "type" of dog just doesn't (and never will) sit well with me.

An American pit bull terrier doesn't even fit into the blocky, over sized, over muscled "type" that is a "pit bull". IMO, it's a huge travesty and injustice that American pit bull terriers are extremely rare dogs (wiped out due to bad press) and are still being blamed for the actions of "pit bull types" all over the place.

If they banned Staffies and all dogs of that "type" (even mixed breeds who may not adhere to the breeds temperament) were the ones attacking and hurting people, when most of the dogs don't even properly fit the breed standard, I don't think that you'd be very happy as you own one and like them.

But this has lost tons of relevance to the original article... so I'll digress and move along. A "type" of dog is not a "breed" of dog, that is all I'm trying to say.
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Florence
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22-05-2014, 10:56 AM
That's literally what I said. Literally.
The breed of the dogs in question hasn't been confirmed yet, but they know the type. They're bull and terrier type dogs. Of which pit bulls, staffies, bull terriers are all part.
Not sure why you're trying to lecture me, you started off with telling me English Bull Terriers and American Pit Bull Terriers aren't the same breed, yet in the article it clearly states: 'six bull terrier type dogs have been seized', not one single mention of a pit bull or an illegal dog breed, nor did I say anything about pit bulls. So no pit bull has been found, just some dogs that look a certain type. Not sure why you need to lecture me that they're different breeds.
And no, I can't call my Staffordshire Bull Terrier a Pit Bull in the UK, because yes, it could get my dog in trouble. So when not knowing the exact breed of the dogs, the term bull terrier types is accurate and less dangerous for the dogs than calling them pit bulls, because then they'd have to be put to sleep immediately, which is ridiculous.
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mjfromga
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Posts: 5,680
Female 
 
22-05-2014, 11:17 AM
I am not trying to lecture you, I was only trying to explain why breed names mean something to me... and why I "like to go on about" how they are two different things. Or whatever you said.

The article said they were acting on a tip of illegal dogs used for fighting. Since the article did not say whether the dogs were "pit bulls" or not, we do not know. There are not even photos of any dogs, so clearly my statements are not tied to this article.

And nothing in my statement was something you said... literally or otherwise. Yes, putting dogs to sleep because of their breed "type" or a label IS ridiculous. Perhaps we can agree there, at least.
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lovemybull
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 974
Female 
 
22-05-2014, 04:29 PM
The comment about getting dangerous dogs off the street rubbed me the wrong way too. Bull breed dogs in particular are hard wired to please their dangerous humans. I'm curious about what happens to the poor dogs now. From what I understand there are breed ban laws. If it looks remotely like anything other than an English Bull Dog it's not allowed in the UK. Is this correct?
The thing is in the states when they bust dogs rings they will try to rehab and place as many dogs as they can. In the Vick case there were so many dogs it took quite an organized effort. Over more than a year they sorted dogs by adoptable, salvageable with training and therapy, not adoptable but sent to a lifelong canine reserve, and just too nutted by the situation to be saved. Amazingly they only had to put down two or three out of all. Vick should have gotten a full sentence though.
But the dogs in this case-will they be automatically destroyed or might there be hope for them?
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Florence
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22-05-2014, 04:56 PM
They will be destroyed if they are classed as a banned breed.
The only banned breeds in the UK are the Pit Bull Terrier & any breed similar (AmStaff, any pit bull type etc.), Dogo Argentino, Tosa Inu, and Fila Brazileiro. However, any dog that is classed as dangerous due to it's actions will most likely be destroyed.
If they are English Bull Terriers, Staffies or similar types they might be rehomed, I think they will do temperament tests etc. Of course we still don't know whether they were used or prepared for fighting, or if it all just was a big coincidence..
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