Dogsey

I've been back onto google and it certainly does say on some sites that e-collars can stand for Elizabethan collar, not e-collar as in electric. But equally the majority of sites both in the USA and UK refer to e-collars as being electric collars. So I stand corrected if I have wrongly interpreted the American Surgeon site.

Chris, the vet prescribed Metronidazole - actually, that is not strictly true. We had 2 weeks' worth of Metro in stock as it were left over from when Tai and Ben used to get repeated infections of giardia from the human sewage sludge spread on the fields next to our garden. To save money, the vet agreed that we could use Metro. It was very effective, but as with humans, it does make dogs feel rather poorly and puts them off their food a bit. As Ben was a tubby lad, this did him a favour!

Gnasher - I've looked, couldn't find anything on their site that refutes they are electric shocks or that they don't omit an electric current. In fact these pictures speak a thousand words to the contrary:





In future, please do not mislead people by saying they are not electric shock collars unless you have reliable evidence to back up your claim. We will not allow our members to be misled on such an important matter.

Azz, in case you missed it the first time around, this is what I posted, cut from the American College of Veterinary Surgeons site:

"At low levels, the term shock is hardly fitting to describe the effects produced by electronic training collars, since there is virtually no effect beyond a pulsing tingling or tickling sensation on the surface of the skin ... the word shock is loaded with biased connotations, images of convulsive spasms and burns, and implications associated with extreme physical pain, emotional trauma, physiological collapse, and laboratory abuses ... the stimulus or signal generated by most modern devices is highly controlled and presented to produce a specific set of behavioral and motivational responses to it." [1]

I do not wish to mislead anybody ... I am merely stating FACT.

I would like to get back to my original point:

Azz, I will address this to you, but anyone else who wants to chip in, please do:

Azz, faced with what I was faced with with Ben, what would YOU have done, bearing in mind the following:

1. Vet advises no treatment will work until we stop Ben eating his backside.

2. Ben needs to be supervised 24/7 for at least a week to give his backside and the perianal fistulas time to heal.

3. OH is currently out of action, so therefore I would have had to stay awake 24/7 for at least a week. I work as a medical secretary privately - if I don't work, I don't get paid.

4. Baskerville muzzle, elizabethan collar both failed. No external device was any good at all - those pants for bitches in season, he shredded a pair of those in minutes.

OK, you think I am so cruel, you tell me what I should have done?

It strikes me that people are far too hasty to point the finger of accusation on this subject, without giving it any thought.

We had a serious, serious problem. Dogs will and do die from perianal fistulas - so do humans, there was a lady in Addenbrookes with my daughter who died of just that. The mucous membrane is permeable in areas like the vagina and the anus, so septocaemia is a very grave and very likely risk if a dog is allowed to continue to tear and bite at his backside. Having lost Ben's father, Hal, to septocaemia, I am not about to allow the same thing again.

If I had to zap him with the e collar 10 times a day I would to stop him eating his backside. Luckily as a very intelligent dog it only took him 2 little reminders to persuade him to stop.

I wish I had taken photographs of before and after - you would be shocked, no pun intended. And the smell was like anal gland fluid mixed with rotting flesh - I used to work in a lab located above the mortuary, so I know what rotting flesh smells like.

So come on Azz, tell me what you would have done instead of treating me like I am some sort of pariah!

I have learned to realize e collar means electric collar to the UK people, but yes it does usually mean Elizabethan collar here and we call e collars shock or stun collars. I still think Gnasher did what she had to do and her dog only came out better for it, which is the important part all these (imo) over sensitive people are overlooking. Their stance is for personal moral reasons and even in cases where the dog benefited, they see only what they want to, which in this case is cruelty. I refuse to be like that. What is done is done and her dog is better.

IMO, that is the best type of thing these collars are for. Tough issues that need quick, effective resolution. People should calm down, and if you still think she was cruel and took the easy way out without caring about how the dog felt (really stupid imo), forgive her in your head and get off her case.

That does not refute that the devices omit electric shocks. All they are saying is that at 'low levels' the effect of the shock is, er, low.

They are electric shock collars where an electric current is passed through one pin to the other, and unless you can provide credible evidence to the contrary, please do not continue to mislead our members.

I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but we do not wish to be a platform for spreading misinformation about these horrible devices. I hope you can appreciate that.

If you could not care for your dog yourself, then perhaps having the dog admitted to your vet would have been the best option?

Personally I feel a combination of restriction collars and vigilance would have been sufficient. I doubt there is anything extraordinary about your dog - hundreds possibly thousands of dogs are equally as 'difficult' yet other owners manage ok without having to resort to giving their dogs electric shocks.

Azz: come on now mate, you are grasping at straws here. Do you really think that the vet would provide 24 hour supervisory care for someone to sit there 24/7 to stop Ben attacking himself? You are living in cloud cuckoo land. How much do you think that would cost in any case, we do not have vet insurance.

There is something extraordinary about my dog Azz - how do you know otherwise, you have never met him! He is totally unique - as every dog is, no 2 dogs are the same, so you cannot possibly say that there is anything extraordinary about ANY dog.

You just cannot give me credit can you for solving a serious problem, to be honest I am disappointed and very fed up with this attitude from you - not from some, I expect the Gnasher Basher to have a go at the slightest excuse, but not you, you know me better than that.

I just hope Azz that you are never in a position where you would have to eat your words.

I am sorry if you think I have misled anyone regarding e collars. I haven't got the time to dig out all the technical stuff about the Dogtra and other professional collars and post it on here, so I will allow you to continue to call them electric shock collars although that is inaccurate.

As for being a platform for spreading misinformation, I won't even go there!