Dogsey

I see where Humans too very often confuse pity and kindness for compassion. Because I have what I consider true compassion by lending the benifit of doubt that we have the largest brain of all creatures thus able to think.
If my "stories" do not get people to "thinking" it is no use my attempting to "get my point across". Obviously we as humans prefer to be believe "there's only 2 ways..... A wrong way and my way."
I've seen many "hints" that people are curious. As to "my point" but no-one committed themself to genuinely asking.

Simple...K9's, domestic or natural, do not speak English, Arabic or Apache.
Because we are member of the Human tribe which has alienated itself from Nature, you may feel somewhat alienated from yourself when you chose to clear your mind and listen to nature.
My line of thought does pertain to this collar.

If we are truly more evolved with an ability to be more compassionate why are we so bent on self destruction and determined to take the rest of Creation with us to that point?
If we are so "evolved+" why are we unable to see these "lesser creatures" do not speak our language and we impose our ways on them and destroy that which does not conform?
I think that if we are truly "more evolved" I would be able to speak Wolf, Dog, JackPine, WhiteSpruce, Granite, Lake, River, Wind.........
Please if you are that "evolved" please, please clue me in because I really need to apologize to all of them for the damage I've done to their tribes and ask them how to get along with everything the way they do so humbly.

Gnasher, do you know how to PM me? If so please do. I don't know how.
Musher over&out for now

Hey Musher - sadly the mere mortals like you and I are forbidden the Holy Sanctum known as The Private Messaging! So all I can do is take my life in my hands and give you my webmail address, which is:

[removed]

Azz: I don't know if I am breaking forum rules doing this, if I am I apologise, but as this is only webmail, I think it should be allowed.

I am truly very interested in having more fat-chewing sessions with you.

Have you read the Torak series of books by Michelle Paver? There are supposedly meant for children I believe, but they are absolutely fascinating. Torak is a boy living about 6,000 years ago pre-farming of course, when man was hunter/gatherer. The reason I mention Torak is because his friend, Wrenn, when she kills an animal for good - can't remember what it was - she gave thanks to the animal for giving her nourishment and treated the carcase with due respect. I believe this is where humans can go wrong ... all they can see is "oh how cruel, a beautiful animal has been slaughtered unnneccessarily because we don't need to eat meat to survive" ... they think they are showing compassion for the animal, but they are not, they are being anthropomorphic. I can see absolutely no point, or fun, in killing anything - I hate even killing blow flies in my kitchen, and will stop if safe to pick up a bumble bee I have struck with my car and try to move it to safety. I will not mow over bees or wasps in the grass, and yet I eat meat and relish it and would I need to, certainly be able to kill, skin, gut and cook meat. I know how to pluck a bird, skin and gut a rabbit and have done many times, just left out the killing bit!

We do indeed have the largest brain of all life on the planet - size for size. I doubt very much though whether we have anywhere near the highest level of wisdom.

You say: "Simple...K9's, domestic or natural, do not speak English, Arabic or Apache.
Because we are member of the Human tribe which has alienated itself from Nature, you may feel somewhat alienated from yourself when you chose to clear your mind and listen to nature.
My line of thought does pertain to this collar".

Exactly - I have often said my use of the e collar on Ben was like an invisible finger, a connection with the dog. It was speaking "wolf", which I cannot do of course, and as you rightly point out, he does not speak my language, although he does understand a lot of words, not just the sounds. By giving him a few nicks of electricity (yes, for sake of argument I am going to use that word, even though it is inaccurate!) I am communicating directly to Ben in the language that he can understand, the language of canis lupus, the wolf. The reward is no momentary pain, only praise for being a good boy and coming when he is called. No-one is forcing him to be disobedient, the punishment certainly is not dire or even painful, just uncomfortable. It is speaking to him directly in his own language, and he is answering.

We have reached the point of no return in terms of the destruction of the planet. I cannot find the reference, but I remember years and years ago Prince Charles talking about a book which he had read that prophesised that if by 2012 we had not ceased to destroy the planet with our poisonous emissions, then whatever we did from that point on was too late anyway. With this knowledge, what do we - supposedly the most intelligent creatures on the planet do? We carry on, destroying OURSELVES in the process - forget the rest of the animals and planet life, we are destroying OURSELVES ... which is totally illogical. If for no other reason, we should have the foresight to just STOP. But we don't, and we will drag the rest of the planet down with us.

Would it not just be so great if we could speak all "languages", such that we could communicate to every living thing? Think what we could learn ... I have a million questions I would like to ask. Why do our horses let us ride them, even when we hurt them is one that has always bemused me. Why do dolphins, whales and other intelligent sea mammals love to interact with us, despite the fact that for millenia we have slaughtered them in their millions? Is it because for a short period of time about 100,000 we were semi-aquatic, living on the shoreline a bit like seals - air breathing, living on the land but spending a lot of time in the water and able to hold our breath for long periods of time - something which new born babies can still do?

I am sure THEY would be able to tell us how to "get along with everything the way they do - without destroying everything they touch, only taking what they need.

Do email me Musher - I find you fascinating - as mad as me most likely!!

How on Earth can you say you are communicating in 'canis lupis' by delivering discomfort??

You are certainly communicating. Every action directed an another being is communication, but in 'canis lupis'. Sorry I don't understand your logic in this

I thought I had explained ... Ben truly "gets" the e collar ... It is talking wolf ... If you don't like the phrase Canus lupus, then substitute the word wolf. If you cannot grasp the meaning of what I am saying, I'm not sure I am smart enough to be able to explain. Try and imagine an invisible finger compelling Ben to come, that's what the e collar is. I wish I was able to put into words what I am trying to say!

Gnasher, start a direct thread and the mods will likely not delete the address. This can be done by going to the bottom of the thread page, the last thread is the direct threads. You can communicate with him there, and not risk a visitor spamming the ever living daylights out of you.

Thanx Myra ... I really miss not being able to pm

It is not talking wolf either. It is a human giving a stimulus aversive enough for the dog to have no choice but to respond. It is positive punishment in terms of learning theory. It is causing discomfort strong enough that the dog doesn't want it to happen again. It is not, under any definition, 'talking wolf'.

For about $8 a year (£5) and following a few simple rules, you can pm again. I like Dogsey and I had PayPal so I went for it. I don't regret it. I rarely pm, and have only pmed two members since I got the privileges back, I had only pmed one strange person before, who had to have been banned for the content of his messages. But I like having the option, and the donation is nice, too.

To be honest I (cant speak for others) don`t get the point you are making, I get confused by your point being wrapped up in your stories about humanity...I am not trying to be argumentative but genuinely don`t get it.

Reading your posts are very enlightening (I think) and you make some good points about humanity and are path to self destruction, but none of that has anything to do with the topic of conversation, maybe its just me, but I missed your opinion on the e.collar, whether you are for or against them.

Thanx for that Myra, I don't mind making a donation to dogsey either, it is nice to send private messages sometimes.

I will try your first suggestion first though ... Thanx matey xx gnasher