Dogsey

I'm not even saying that I'd never take a dog that poses a threat to humans. My Jade would likely bite a kids face off, and might bite an adult, too. But she poses no threat to this family and so I handle the aggression with a muzzle and she stays as a part of my family.

My last dog Brownie would defend my life to his death against any human and would maul them badly, but again... he posed no threat to us, was generally a great dog, and he lived his 15+ years never biting anybody. I'd take a dog that snapped a child that hurt him by accident. I don't hurt dogs and if I met the dog and he seemed like a good dog, I'd take him in the right situation.

I mean currently I would not, but let's be honest damnit, some humans totally deserved the dog bite they got and it's not the dogs fault at all and it doesn't mean the dog will keep biting or is vicious.

To me, a vicious dog is one that will bite for seemingly no reason and bites to hurt. Not all bites are vicious, a vicious dog will clamp his jaws shut and turn his head and rip your flesh open. Warning bites may hurt, but they usually don't tear your flesh.

I endeavor to give my dogs space and let them get comfortable with living here. I don't do absurd nonsense just to pee them off. There are no kids here to pull and yank on them. If any of my dogs ever bit me, it would be unprovoked, therefore I'd have to surrender the dog.

Oh, and to me there are VERY few good reasons to bite ones owners. Dogs that may bite a stranger are not the same as dogs who bite the hand that feeds them. Sure, it's justified sometimes, but still.

Ben did absolutely that Myra, he bit the hand that fed him, walked him and looked after him. It was a momentary thing, an instinctive snap through sheer fear of being beaten or chained up outside like he used to be. He has never done it again, when I am grooming him, which he hates, I can now do so without muzzling him but I watch him all the time and he gives me plenty of non-verbal warnings which he knows I can understand and which he expects me to read. He never growls or air snaps at me now, simply because I have stoppped before we get to the stage where he needs to do so. I can tell from his eyes mainly, but also his ear position and the tilt of his head if he is unhappy. If he is I will praise him for being a good boy in telling me, and will either stop grooming him altogether for a few minutes, or cease entirely or groom something less sensitive. He HATES his tail touched or brushed in any way, but will let me do this now unmuzzled simply because he trusts me.

Awesome. My Nigredo is Labrador/Great Pyrenees, 40 kg and needs grooming about three times a week at least, nothing like your Ben but things are so much easier when you raise them from puppies and boy does Nigredo love his grooming time.

You've done a grand job, and it's not your job to please random people who don't know you, your situation, or your dog with your methods, it's your job to take care of your dog. It's refreshing to see that you have not forgotten that. Keep up the good work.

All these people who have anchored themselves on this issue, refusing to budge, making assumptions, and blah, blah, blah and la-dee-da, yet it's people like Gnasher who give dogs that might otherwise die a chance to live who are the true animal lovers.

Has it crossed your mind Myra that maybe some of those people have also helped aggressive dogs without the use of the collar. It's a very sweeping assumption you've made there

Not at all Chris! You have missed the point entirely!! There will be thousands of people who have helped aggressive dogs without the use of the e collar ... including us!!!

IMO an e collar is not a suitable tool to overcome aggression. We overcame Ben's fear aggression by understanding and assertive, consistent training and confidence-boosting sessions.

To get over the massive problem we had of his lack of recall, we used the e-collar.

We are not attempting to get Ben over his aggression towards, in particular, black male dogs using the e-collar either, because it would be inappropriate. We are doing this by making absolutely sure we have him under control - in other words, of a harness - until we know it is 100% safe to let him off the lead.

Yesterday, he was on his lead when about 6 or 7 loose dogs all came bounding over the blind summit of the hill we were climbing. All barking and yapping, Ben was on the lead attached to the harness round OH's waist, when one little dog, a black hairy thing, came rushing right into Ben's space. Ben was having none of that, and so pounced on the dog and pinned it down by the neck to teach it a lesson. He released it instantly when pulled away and told to leave, no harm done. Little black dog has learned a lesson ... and Ben was reprimanded, because despite the fact it was not strictly his fault, nonetheless I am not happy with him behaving like this. The dog was very small, no need to be so assertive. We still have a long way to go with Ben, but using an e collar on him in these circumstances is not the right thing to do.

Thank you Myra, I absolutely agree with you.

What a lovely cross Nigredo is ... how my Ben would love her! Does she like to play rough? Boxing?

Or does she go all girly and protect her rear end from all comers! Ben does like to liberally goose his lady friends, even though he is castrated!

Musher: Are you a native american or canadian? I hope you don't mind me asking, but you sound like you could be. I have been reading up about that Margery Blickman and had a mosey on that anti-iditarod website. I agree with you about the bovine detritus that she spouts!!

Nigredo is male, Gnasher and boy does he LOVE a playmate his size and vigor. Very uncommon here. He is only two years old. He's quite strong and can be a bit pushy but never aggressive. Problem is, he looks like a curly tailed, fluffy black Labrador, and I heard Ben doesn't like male black Labrador types. He is neutered and looks rather girly. Most dogs adore him.

Chris, I know many can turn dogs around without e collars. They are grouped with Gnasher. I applaud anybody who purely cares that much and succeeded. I think she loves her dog and did the right thing. She gets my respect. I don't have to adore the tools she used to adore how hard she worked and how much she seems to care about Ben.

"It is not talking wolf either. It is a human giving a stimulus aversive enough for the dog to have no choice but to respond. It is positive punishment in terms of learning theory. It is causing discomfort strong enough that the dog doesn't want it to happen again. It is not, under any definition, 'talking wolf'.
Chris"

If I hadn't learned to speak English we would'nt be having this conversation.
NOW.... who has more compassion?.. who has ore respect?... who has more love?
I could invite you into y home, serve you a fresh pot of Orange Pekoe tea with lemon honey at my humble table, and sit aside you with an unassuming and humble posture, wearing a gentle smile and speaking in a calm, kind voice. and since you don't comprehend my language, I could e saying all kinds of nasty things to you about you.
But you would'nt understand because YOU DON"T SPEAK MY LANGUAGE!!! but you would be ale to speak my language if you understood it, the only way to understand my language is a genuine desire to communicate with me at my level.
Instead of being so caught-up in self.......
Have you ever heard the term"When with wolves, HOWL."?
You dont get it do you. Do you have any idea why?
If I may be so very bold..."There's only 2 ways. A wrong way and my way."
you have already made up your mind and there's no way in Heaven or Hell you are going to change it.
Like I said, "I feel like I'm beating a dead horse"