Dogsey

Over 30 years of dog training I have seen what these devices can do and have had to get the dog/s over the trauma of these dreadful things. The same as check chains and tight muzzles etc. I could go on but as I said I am not prepared to get into this as some people are pro these and plenty are not. As Chris has said they cause more problems than the problem that is there and which can be rectified by kind methods. If an owner understands their dog why inflict pain on it. If an owner doesn't understand their dog then they should seek kind professional help. Or not even have a dog.

Chris ... totally inappropriate use of an e-collar. You must never use an e collar to train against a dog's instincts on his own patch in particular. You must not use an e collar e.g. to stop a dog digging, or chasing next doors cats ... both examples you quoted were e collars being used on dog's own territory ... an absolute no-no. We used the e collar on Ben to stop him running off, but to return to us on command. When out in the fields, never on his own patch. Tai was killing chickens who had escaped out onto the set aside. The set aside was not Tai's garden, totally reasonable. With one zap we stopped him killing our neighbour's chooks. This is the correct use of an ecollar

Brenda ... you know me from a cyber point of view ... do you think I could possibly inflict severe pain on my beloved Tai and Ben? Ben would have likely torn us apart if we ever did anything to him he disliked. He was a wild beast when we first got him ... OH has a deformed left hand to prove it!!

Gnasher, how you use an e-collar is immaterial (still wrong in my opinion, but immaterial). The problems you mention are what a lot of those who buy them use them for.

In fact, the whole discussion is immaterial as they will be banned and then the discussion will turn to enforcement rather than the rights and wrongs

Exactly Chris ... the correct use. Your quotes demonstrate the inappropriate use of e collars ... or rather inappropriate scenarios.

Nope, that's not what I meant at all. Rather that some of the use is more 'incorrect' than others.

Any use risks fall out and unexpected behavioural consequences.

Fortunately, our Government looks to be finally seeing sense and agrees

So our outstanding success with Ben was just a fluke? A one-off? You cannot Imagine what Ben was like... you only have my word for it ... but as a dog owner of 50 years he was the only one who came within a gnats whisker of being put down for non-medical reasons. If the use of the e collar was so painful, so damaging, my hubby would not have lived to tell the tale.

RIP Ben ... you were a great friend

As this is now getting like the Brexit saga, I'll bow out.

I'm just glad that our Government is finally seeing sense

How easy ... without answering my question. Sounds like you are a politician Chris!!

Nope, just find it tedious going over an argument already won. Plus, I wouldn't want to offend