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Location: UK
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,723
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Originally Posted by
Borderdawn
No, thats where to see the best working Collies. Many working Collies look like mongrels. Many farmers dont care what they look like. Id say some of the best looking Collies that work Ive seen, are Moobli's. I reckon some of hers could compete in the ring too, now THAT is what a Collie should look like!
Brains and beauty!
I agree Moobli has some stunning dogs
But a border collie is what it is BECAUSE of the way it works sheep
Originally Posted by
Tassle
They are stunning looking Collies, but they would not stand a chance in the ring.
Nowhere near enough coat for starters.
I agree with BMF, you would not be seeing the best examples of border collies, a dog should be the whole, not just the look.
Originally Posted by
Borderdawn
I dont agree with that, whilst I agree the BC is more of a "trimmed" breed than it ever was, there are still a good many that are not very heavily coated. They have over the last decade or so become extremely popular in the ring and a lot look like Aussie's with tails!
Yes I agree and that is something I have problems with. They have only become so popular very recently and already the dogs are changing dramaticaly. In general they all have vast amounts of coat, pretty much identical markings, all with tipped ears (some people even glue the ears to make them so) overly domed heads to make them look more puppy like and fairly heavy boned (even tho the last time I saw a breed standard it said lighter boned was to be prefered over heavy - but that was a while ago and I guess that might have changed)
If these changes have happend so much in just a decade or so then that is very worrying
Originally Posted by
Tassle
But they are all recognisable as collies.
I have yet to see a BC working that looks like a cross. The more showing is done with them the more the breed start to conform in the ring and so the farm collies start to look 'wrong'.
I am not aware of any other breed with as many colour variations as collies, or as many acceptable ear sets? But this is slowly changing and this is all due to the showing set.
Your post shows that collies (as with Springers, Cockers and Labs, to a point,) are becoming more of a spilt breed, working and show type. I find that sad.
Yes I totaly love the variation, but the fact that every one of them looks like a collie. I would hate to loose that in favour of a flock of clones
and the fact that there will soon be a split breed just shows the huge changes breeding for looks can cause (I did see a study a couple of years back from america that actualy the dna of the show dogs over there was actually far enough appart as to make them already a different breed)
Originally Posted by
Borderdawn
Come on Tassle, the construction is pretty much the same on a decent worker as it is in a show collie, its only a bit of coat that makes the difference in most cases. Some working "Collies" Ive seen, and mainly in the Lakes Im talking here, look like they have Greyhound in them!
They have showing rib cages, curly tails, poor temperament (running out and attacking other dogs) and so many have such long legs, they really do look like a collie/grey cross.
Im not getting into a debate over the "changes" you appear to be seeing, but I will say that farmers on the whole have very little concern of what a dog looks like as long as it works, and if longer legs help, so be it, if its kept thinner because it can go faster, so be it!
yup not all farmers are amazing breeders, not all farm collies are the best dogs in the world
It is more than likely that the collie has greyhound in it somewhere, and some dogs are more leggy than others. Also I know many farmers who work cattle prefer the more leggy dogs - it depends on the ground and the types of animals
It is more than possible some farmers do keep their dogs too skinny, not all farmers treat their dogs well
But I also know quite a lot of collie owners who find their dogs are very lean when they are young (some fluffy show dog type ones - but you cant see it only feel it)
Originally Posted by
Hali
I have. I've been to a few trials over the past year and must admit, I've been really surprised by the looks of some of the dogs. The most noticable were two fully black dogs. One looked more GSD than WSD and the other I thought was a lab cross.
They've all done the job though.
Yup I believe dogs can be registered on merit as a border collie even if it dosent have papers if it works the sheep in a correct collie way
I heard of a dog who looked like a beardy but worked the sheep in a border collie style so was registered as a border collie
I know others will disagree but I see totaly no problems with that
The border collie isnt a breed that was made by a few rich people with kennels wanting a dog that looked such a way to do such a job
It was bred from the most useful farm dogs to be a good working sheepdog - it is a total mixture and I for one am passionate that it stays that way