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Malka
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17-01-2013, 01:12 PM

Back to basics after four years

I am not sure whether this should be in Training and Behaviour - if so would a kind mod please move it. Thanks.

It started with me going to remove Pereg's empty bowl away after she had finished eating [and licked every last atom of food from it] - and I got a curled lip and The Look from her when I went to pick it up, and an air-snap if I put my hand near it. Not all the time, but sometimes, but if I left it until she went out of the kitchen there was no problem.

Now she has started standing over it and refusing to move until I go out of the kitchen, when she will then follow me and let me go back a while later to pick up the bowl to wash it and put it away. She is not protective over her food and will let me move the bowl when there is food in it - she just does not want me to take the empty bowl until she has gone out of the kitchen.

So back to basics with offering her a tiny treat and then she will let me pick it up. Fine, it is working, but I do not want her to start expecting a treat each day.

Her latest was refusing to do "Down" - she will just sit and give me The Look as it to say "make me". So again out came the jar of tiny treats and she will go Down, get a treat, Up and another treat, Down again and another treat. But sometimes if she does not get the treat as soon as she is Down, again the lip curl and a half-hearted air-snap.

I say "training session" and she immediately goes and looks at where the treats jar is, and is happy to have ten or more minutes of this Down/Up/Down, but as I said, if sometimes she does not get the treat as soon as she is Down, it is the lip curl and half-hearted air-snap.

All other times she is the loving girl that she has always been, so I do not understand why this has suddenly started. She did have a Kevin period a while back but that was just her being stubborn - never a lip curl and air-snap, although she has caught my wrist a couple of times when playing, but never intentionally.

I am not really sure what to do now.
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zoeyvonne
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17-01-2013, 02:09 PM
Oh Malka what a little monkey Pereg is being at the moment bless her, not sure what the answer is but didn't want to read and ignore, maybe the dieting is getting too much for her and she is after more food? I really don't know, sounds confusing that she wants you to leave the kitchen before she does? x x x
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Malka
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17-01-2013, 02:42 PM
I am fairly certain it has nothing to do with dieting as since she reached her target weight she is allowed an occasional extra treat, and she is probably getting a bit extra food now to keep her weight stable as I do not want her to lose any more.

It is just these two things - the wanting me to leave her bowl on the floor until she is ready for me to pick it up, and the Down instruction. To be honest neither really matter but why has this developed? The bowl thing started a few months back I think, but that was only an occasional occurrence, but it is only very recent that she refused the Down instruction.

She loves the training sessions though, so hopefully whatever her reasons for playing up at the moment are, they will be resolved, because I do not have the slightest idea why they have arisen.
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Fivedogpam
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17-01-2013, 03:19 PM
It's very disconcerting when this sort of thing happens. I have no ideas I'm afraid unless it's linked to her epilepsy.
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Malka
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17-01-2013, 07:03 PM
Originally Posted by Fivedogpam View Post
It's very disconcerting when this sort of thing happens. I have no ideas I'm afraid unless it's linked to her epilepsy.
It could well be as she was really acting up a couple of hours ago, so much so that I had to give her a calming pill. Ram is quite happy for me to give her one when necessary although it is not often that I do.

I will carry on with the training sessions and see how she goes, as I do not want it to turn into a habit.
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Jenny
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17-01-2013, 09:02 PM
What a naughty girl Pereg is being

Until I read this I had completely forgotten that my Flash had exactly the same problem with his food bowl. I tried so many different things and for ages I had to wait until he had stopped guarding the empty bowl in the kitchen. But that then ended up with him 'guarding' the door to the kitchen

I feed mainly dry kibble so I chucked the bowls away and they eat off mats which he doesn't seem to have a problem with me picking up and washing. The odd thing is that if we are somewhere else at food time I simply put his food in a bowl and he's absolutely fine. Rucksack has never resource guarded anything and use to look at Flash in total disbelief when Flash was guarding his empty bowl. Flash would let Rucksack go over and lick it, just wouldn't let me pick it up.

One thing you could try is to use lots of different bowls and therefore devalue the item. Change her routine and put her bowl the other side of the room, leaving her empty bowl down. Just a suggestion. Good luck.
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Malka
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17-01-2013, 09:29 PM
I think Pam was right and it probably is connected to the slight confusion she has at times due to her epilepsy. I am not going to fret over it though as I am sure she is not deliberately being naughty or disobedient.

As for using different bowls - she only has the one so I have to take the empty one up to wash it. Also there is only one place it can be put down in my tiny kitchen otherwise I would not be able to get past her if I put it anywhere else! And as she now lets me take it when I offer a tiny treat, I would rather do that than get her stressed.

Why she has started the business with not obeying the Down command I just cannot fathom. But who knows what is going on in her brain and whether has anything to do with the epi or her medication?
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Azz
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17-01-2013, 10:15 PM
Jenny's idea of getting different bowls might be worth trying, and perhaps cutting down on the treats so that she has to work harder for them (i.e save them for the downs only).

I would also mention it to the vet just in case there is some underlying issue (might be joint problems or something).

I would certainly not let her think the undesired behaviour is ok... and would issue a firm and long no to let her know, but by the sound of it it seems like she needs a reminder that she should respect you - so back to basics does indeed sound like a good idea.
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Malka
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18-01-2013, 09:32 AM
Pereg normally only has three treats - around 8 or 9pm - and they are very small bone-shaped biscuits that I break in half so she only has three x halves. For the first one she has to stay in the kitchen with the instruction Sit and then Stay, and she stays while I come back into the salon until I call her. She then gets half a biscuit. The next command is Down [in the middle of the salon floor] and when she is down I say Stay - and I come back to the computer, after a few minutes calling her and she gets the second half of a biscuit. The third half she gets when she has been sitting quietly beside my chair for at least five minutes, with the biscuit where she could easily get it - but she will not touch it until I tell her she may have it.

Those are normally the only treats she has and has had since she was a puppy, and she has to follow my instructions before she gets them.

She will not even touch her food when I put it down until I tell her she may have it - she sits looking at it, looking at me, but will not touch it. I have even left the room and she will not touch it until I tell her she may.

I occasionally have games with her I am evil! with the very tiny treats, and again she does exactly as she is told, which is why this current behaviour with the bowl and the Down is so puzzling.

I do not think she has any joint problems as she flonks down quite happily with no problem and so sign of pain, and in any case I give her Glucosamine and Chondroitin with MSM, and also Green Lipped Mussel, so I know it is not that.

What I am using now as treats for the back to basics are the same very tiny little treats, which are ~50mm square - smaller than the fingernail on my littlest finger. The same ones as in the "evil" game. She gets one for the bowl pick up, and then just one for Down when she is down, and one for Up, so she is hardly given a lot of treats . I will stop giving her one on Up and see what happens.
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muddymoodymoo
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18-01-2013, 10:28 AM
How about putting some of her food in several bowls spread well apart and then making a game of approaching/picking an empty one up whilst throwing some more food into the others. So that she sees you approaching the bowl as her getting more food somewhere else?

Or simply leaving her bowl alone until she is not interested or she is outside etc?
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