Okey doke. I just thought with you quoting my post that my original response had been taken out of context. I still think that whilst they may not get direct aggro for having them, they will get quite a bit of disapproval whether openly or not - in my opinion, quite rightly.

Thats the thing with a lot of people. Keyboard crusaders! Im quite happy to say to peoples faces exactly what I say on here, and a damn sight more! It amazes me how much some people "assume" when in actual fact they know stuff all!

Came to light pretty well at Crufts in fact.

Nope, it was just a follow on, from the original remark about owners getting flack.

My point was simply (not questioning yours) that tut tutting behind someone's back, is not going to influence ones decision to own a,b,c .........

hmm strangly enough I thought dogs who did agility were dogs, as J&C explained it makes the study MORE not less relivent because it is taking out the random factor of dogs who spend all their lives on leads and never get a chance to run about
I am not sure if you are just being difficult on purpose or have no idea about research and stuff but looking at this one group is removing some variability so make the study better

although I disagree with you quite a bit here (especially the idea that dogs are supposed to be jumping on and off hard equipment - they are not suppposed to be jumping it - thats the point of the contact zones to prevent that)
I really kind of dont get your point here anyways - in your mind possibly it is a sport making the dogs more prone to injury
BUT
the study is not saying 'agility dogs are getting arthritis'
it is saying agility dogs who have had their dew claws removed are at higher risk of arthritis than agility dogs who still have their dew claws

That there is statistically significant evidence to show that there is a difference in removing dew claws

I understand fully the results of the research, but you stated in your firstpost, that studies you had read, say the removal of dew claws cause injury/arthritis to joints in de-clawed dogs....... it was not till later on you added the study is only in dogs that do agility, where it may be relevant .

Your study may not be skewered , but your argument was, as it only involved dogs that take a fair amount of pounding on their joints compared to most breeds/dogs who are de- dew clawed.



Contact zones the give friction on contact with the ground, it snot just about contact zones, jumps involved, and weave poles, you cant tell me that pressure on joints in non existent when a dog weaves as such pace through them.


Are at higher risk, does that mean, they might get it or that they do have it??


My point is , you insinuated that ALL dogs will suffer from joint problems, if dew claws are removed.



In dogs that do agility!

Show me a study that is based on dogs in all walks of life suffering problems, them your argument may hold some clout!

I would never be deliberately rude to someone I didn't know. I am rarely deliberately rude on here either. If it was someone I knew or had been chatting to, then I would comment

We all make assumptions - in fact, you've just made one yourself . Provided we state when something is our opinion as opposed to when something is fact, what's the problem??

BM..just to clear something up, so what you are saying is the reports you have read say, that in the studies done on agility dogs , with and without dew claws, the conclusion is that , it MIGHT be a factor in joint problems... not IS a factor, so basically they are saying that it could be, not it is???

So there is no evidence to support the theory??

Just musing here, but if the removal of the dew claws shows up an increased risk in agility dogs, then it's logical to assume (there I go assuming again) that the increased 'risk' may be present in dogs that do not participate in that sport.

I suppose as the agility dogs were easy to study in that they were like for like and the numbers were there to test it was a good starting study.

Getting together the amount of dogs needed to do a similar study in dogs that didn't participate in any sport with owners that would allow testing would, I imagine be far more difficult.

It would be interesting to read the actual study on the agility dogs to see what was involved and the numbers etc

I agree, because re-reading BM, post, from what I can gather , its an "assumption" that removign dew claws, MIGHT be a factor in joint related problems... to hold clout, it needs to be a bit more than guess work.

If for instance the study took 50 dogs and 25 had dew claws and 25 did not, and those without all had joint related problems, and those with did not, (given all a similar age and so on) you could then say there was a common denominator to work on.

So yes it would be interesting to see how they come by the results.

The problem is that when people are targeted purely because of their preferences it IS wrong. However, some people do not have the face to back that up in person. That is not an assumption its fact. People in glass houses an' all............

In any case, as I said I like the look of cropped ears on dogs, wouldnt hesitate in buying one if it were legal here, however, I wouldnt import one purely for that purpose.