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Velvetboxers
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04-10-2011, 10:41 PM
Originally Posted by Dobermann View Post
He digests it fine but then had the cysts show up again. He is fine when fed no beef at all, then it seemed that lamb may be an issue so I now have my doubts as to whether he can eat red meat at all really. However noticed a cooked low fat piece of lamb does not seem to bring them up.

If he eats cooked lamb fat it basically ends in 'the squits' yet if he eats raw lamb fat he digests it fine. Thats why I am wondering about whether there is something in particular about red meat....however when he hasnt had either he now has them I am even considering if totally cutting out this 'allergen' is creating more for him to be intolerant of if you know what I mean?

tbh I am now doubting the source a little too. I asked for lamb tripe before and they said yes, and tbf, he was fine, I asked for lamb liver and they said yes....this time I asked and they said they cannot do that as they use all sources together; they didnt say this was a new thing though! Perhaps its me looking a little too close but...hmm

The problem is it is very hard to (reliably) get offal that isn't beef or lamb here. Even in the supermarkets its hard to get pork offal and chicken livers.
Yes I can understand it can be hard to source certain foods when you can't have the likes of Landywoods to deliver

Our dogs took hotspots repeatedly on raw, after
Just over a year on it, I gave it up. However Harvey still gets raw chicken wings and occasional raw meal which he enjoys. Plus of co ruse his raw meaty knuckle or marrow bones which he loveeeeeesssss
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Velvetboxers
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04-10-2011, 11:07 PM
Well folks here we are, another day on elimination home cooked diet and things are soooooo much better, all the red skin has gone and the deep pink is fast receding It is a vast vast improvement.

Tonight he had potato, long green beans and chopped chicken

Was round in the local shop this afternoon and to my amazement they had sweet potato so got some to prepare and cook I need to get out to do a supermarket trip but will have to wait until I feel a bit better

I think I will keep him on this type of diet for about a fortnight and then start to slowly introduce different ingredients to see what he reacts to

It is interesting that he has been having wheaten bread (roughage) either toasted or mixed with sardines for breakfast (cereals) and has had no reaction. I have always thought he was sensitive to cereals so I have learned something there.
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Lynn
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05-10-2011, 12:04 AM
Is this any help ?

Ideas and information about cooked and raw. Raw I know you cannot use VB.

http://www.dog-obedience-training-re...-dog-food.html

Also this one if you feel like reading it. Some bits are useful.

http://www.infopet.co.uk/pages/0131.html

Use the tool bar on left to navigate.
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rueben
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05-10-2011, 07:30 AM
Originally Posted by Velvetboxers View Post

It is interesting that he has been having wheaten bread (roughage) either toasted or mixed with sardines for breakfast (cereals) and has had no reaction. I have always thought he was sensitive to cereals so I have learned something there.

Although cereal is a common problem for dogs to digest because of low levels of the enzyme amylase,I don't think cereal is the problem for Harvey as he had a reaction to Orijen which is cereal free.

His problem could be a lack of enzyme needed to digest protein.
He may not be producing enough HCL acid.

The digestive system is linked to the immune system and if there is not enough digestive enzymes produces they are taken from the immune system.

This has the knock on effect of weakening the immune system causing various problems including hot spots.

Cooking may not be as nutritious but it will help start the digesting process.

Just another thought to throw in the mix.
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Jackie
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05-10-2011, 08:23 AM
Originally Posted by Velvetboxers View Post
Well folks here we are, another day on elimination home cooked diet and things are soooooo much better, all the red skin has gone and the deep pink is fast receding It is a vast vast improvement.

Tonight he had potato, long green beans and chopped chicken

Was round in the local shop this afternoon and to my amazement they had sweet potato so got some to prepare and cook I need to get out to do a supermarket trip but will have to wait until I feel a bit better

I think I will keep him on this type of diet for about a fortnight and then start to slowly introduce different ingredients to see what he reacts to

It is interesting that he has been having wheaten bread (roughage) either toasted or mixed with sardines for breakfast (cereals) and has had no reaction. I have always thought he was sensitive to cereals so I have learned something there.
Thats good to know, I think this may be the way forward fro you (for now anyway) to cook his food , you can always balance his diet out with supplements if needed........lets face it, I am sure what ever we feed there may be a chance of something being missed out in their diet.

Many of the really cheap foods/wet or dry are far from being nutritional , yet many dogs thrive on them , so the phrase "horses for courses " comes to mind!

There seems to be a undertone of a holier than thou attitude sneaking in here by a couple of posters, regarding raw feeding, with a hidden .if you don`t feed raw, your letting yours dog down, the attitude "we know best" is getting a little hard to swallow.

I don't feed raw, have no interest in ever feeding raw, and am getting a little tired of being told, its natural and best for our dogs.........

Lets face it, how many people who follow the trend of raw feeding , really know what they are doing....... I am sure many do But I equally guess many just follow the trend to be "in" , but really don't understand it.


Accusing someone (indirectly) that the problems their dog is suffering may be due to poor breeding and a lack of feeding raw..is a bit pompous to say the least... but not unexpected from that source.


Helen I know you are doing all you can to fix this, and understand completely you may feel a little miffed that some could suggest your problems stem from, feeding cheap , buying from bad breeding ignore the outbursts..and keep on doing what you are doing.

Another kibble to look at, you will have to have a good look at it,

Natural dog food company


Its what I changed to , when Millie had a do with allergies a while back.
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Jackie
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05-10-2011, 08:26 AM
Originally Posted by rueben View Post
Although cereal is a common problem for dogs to digest because of low levels of the enzyme amylase,I don't think cereal is the problem for Harvey as he had a reaction to Orijen which is cereal free.

His problem could be a lack of enzyme needed to digest protein.
He may not be producing enough HCL acid.

The digestive system is linked to the immune system and if there is not enough digestive enzymes produces they are taken from the immune system.

This has the knock on effect of weakening the immune system causing various problems including hot spots.

Cooking may not be as nutritious but it will help start the digesting process.

Just another thought to throw in the mix.
How can that be supplemented
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rueben
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05-10-2011, 09:13 AM
Originally Posted by Jackbox View Post
How can that be supplemented
Cannine enzymes supplements are available.
This is only a suggestion for Helen to look into and not a diagnosis.

You are quite right about food attitude.
In a perfect world there would be no problems and no need for a solution but as it is there is no one problem and no one fix.

My belief is most problems start off not because of the food but with a malfunctioning digestive system with issues following on from that.


Ruby gets her meals through the board which I alternate.
Mostly raw proteins but cooked egg as raw egg gives her the squits.
She also gets kibble meals.
I have fed her Orijen a good kibble but a bit too high on protein for her as her poops where a bit soft of it.
I now give her Acana and find when she has this kibble she is firmer so I will stick with this one.

This thread seems to have moved of the original post about a dodgy kibble onto digestive probs.
May be we should have started a different thread.
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rueben
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05-10-2011, 03:30 PM
Helen-I forgot to mention if you still think that digesting protein is the problem.
I can't see Harvey eating saurkraut as a stomach acid balancer but you could try cider vinegar.
Stir a teaspoonful into his protein food.
You can sponge it diluted on his hot spots as well to sooth and heal his hot spots.
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smokeybear
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05-10-2011, 04:35 PM
Originally Posted by Jackbox View Post
Many of the really cheap foods/wet or dry are far from being nutritional , yet many dogs thrive on them , so the phrase "horses for courses " comes to mind!

Yep millions of people live long lives eating nothing other than fast food, hydrogenated fats, and smoke and drink.

And others who do not smoke, drink sleep around, and are vegans often drop dead early.


There seems to be a undertone of a holier than thou attitude sneaking in here by a couple of posters, regarding raw feeding, with a hidden .if you don`t feed raw, your letting yours dog down, the attitude "we know best" is getting a little hard to swallow.

I agree, I have always said feed what is best for YOUR individual dog, whether that be floor sweepings, raw, home cooked, tinned, dry etc etc.

I don't feed raw, have no interest in ever feeding raw, and am getting a little tired of being told, its natural and best for our dogs.........

Well a lot of people get tired of being told that smoking is not good for them; or that smoking is bad when you are pregnant; or drinking too much is bad, etc etc It does not stop people trying to kill themselves or their unborn babies so I agree these attitudes are a waste of time and no advice on health should ever be given.

Lets face it, how many people who follow the trend of raw feeding , really know what they are doing....... I am sure many do But I equally guess many just follow the trend to be "in" , but really don't understand it.

Yes I agree, it is the same for those who follow the trend of feeding complete foods because they are told they are scientifically produced and contain all that a dog needs. This very thread has demonstrated the exteme folly of that and how little people understand about nutrition, allergies and intolerance and just spend a great deal of time "guessing" what might be the underlying cause of their dog's health problems instead of seeking specialist advice from those qualified to help.

Accusing someone (indirectly) that the problems their dog is suffering may be due to poor breeding and a lack of feeding raw..is a bit pompous to say the least... but not unexpected from that source.

Accusing someone (indirectly) that to consider that genetics may be a factor in health problems is a bit pompous but not unexpected from that source. As it would be totally ludicrous to suggest that any allergies, intolerances or health problems are anything to do with genetics, in fact I wonder why people spend so much time carrying out health tests on their breeding stock to ELIMINATE or minimise health conditions. How CRAZY and POMPOUS is that? Utter madness, to think such a thing.

Helen I know you are doing all you can to fix this, and understand completely you may feel a little miffed that some could suggest your problems stem from, feeding cheap , buying from bad breeding ignore the outbursts..and keep on doing what you are doing.


Another kibble to look at, you will have to have a good look at it,

Natural dog food company


Its what I changed to , when Millie had a do with allergies a while back.

Such a shame that so many dogs have to suffer so many health problems.
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smokeybear
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05-10-2011, 04:38 PM
Originally Posted by rueben View Post
My belief is most problems start off not because of the food but with a malfunctioning digestive system with issues following on from that.
Exactly my point, malfunction due perhaps to poor breeding, recessive genes, hereditary conditions etc.

EXCELLENT post.
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