Perhaps if people were given an incentive such as a reduction in licence if their dog/s were microchipped + neutered.

When we fill in our licence forms we have to stipulate whether our dogs are neutered and /or chipped

Why should I have to have my dogs neutered & chipped ? My males have never sired an unplanned litter in all the time I have had males & my bitches have never had an unwanted pregnancy in the 50 + years I have owned bitches.

It appears that instead of responsible ownership & education the majority of pet owners use an intrusive operation(neutering)to as birth control for dogs.

Don't forget a castrated male can still seek out bitches & mate with them-eventually a castrated male will become sterile, but no vet will give you a timescale for this to happen.

In Germany there is a dog tax, however owners whose dogs have been trained & gained qualifications actually pay less dog tax than those that don't. A far better incentive than rewarding people for neutering their dogs & chipping them, yet still allowing them to be untrained & uncontrolled. Also in Germany the dog tax is used to provide training places for dog owners, again another incentive for owners to train their dogs.

Stray dogs in Germany are exceptional & rarely seen in the towns as they are in the UK.

I still much prefer the idea of licences for owner/walkers before they are allowed to become dog owners or be in charge of dogs.

But if the family member lives at the same address or the bitch lives at the same address then a licence is still needed.

I've had a visit from the council & the RSPCA because I am supposedly breeding dogs without a Breeders Licence more than once(less than a month ago the last time)this is despite the fact that I only own one bitch(who has never had & will never have a litter)who has only had two seasons in the nearly 3 years I have had her & her last season was in November last year. They were both denied access for obvious reasons(ie no proof of a current litter & under the limit of bitches allowed)Are you suggesting that because I have abitch who is currently entire(cannot have her spayed until my vet & I know her hormonal pattern)I should have to have a breeders licence ???????

I will apply for a breeders licence before I do breed a litter(hopefully from my new puppy who is currently 5 weeks old-subject to health testing), but that will not be for at least another 2 yaers.

The problem is it is way too easy to buy/obtain a dog/bitch here in the UK & until places like puppy farms & dog dealers are closed down it will continue to be so. The laws is in place to close puppy farmers down & thus put puppy dealers out of business by stopping their "goods"being produced. Trouble is that the Councils do not use the laws at their disposal to close these places down.

Two examples for you of badly bred Border Collies(unregistered)
1. Lady sees advert in local paper for pedigree Border Collies & goes to a private house & buys a dog puppy(for £300). House is lovely & clean, both parents of the litter are seen & puppy taken home. This puppy is brought to dog training having had litter or no experience outside the breeders' or owner's homes, so is very barky are other dogs etc. The breeders told the owners not to take the puppy anywhere until after it had had all it's vaccinations as did the vet so 13 week old puppy had only ever seen it's own litter mates & parents. Some 5 weeks on the owner is still having problems with the puppies behaviour towards other dogs.

I asked about health tests on the parents & puppies & was told this"no testing needed as the puppy & parents aren't KC registered & anyway Border collies don't need health testing !!! Also you need to see both parents with puppies as it shows the breeders know what they are doing !

I also asked about the parents, turns out the bitch was bought as a puppy from a another pet home & they were then given a dog that the owners couldn't cope with, so they just had to become breeders & start breeding from their pets !!! Words failed me at this point !

2. Couple contacted me about bringing their BC puppy to clicker training. Puppy out of the vet advised indoor period after vaccinations. They realised that they had bought their puppy from a puppy dealer-lots of different litters seen of various breeds no bitches seen at all. The premises were spotless & their puppy was 8 weeks old(legal lowest age for licensed breeders/dealers)when they bought the puppy(allegedly as puppy looked much younger than 12 weeks old it was supposed to be. They had taken their puppy out & about with them, but not been walked anywhere obviously. This puppy would have been taken from it's mother probably around 5 weeks of age & is probably two to three weeks younger that it is supposed to be ! Again no health tests etc done. At least this puppy had been socialized outside of the home & is quite outgoing towards other dogs in a good way. again they had paid £300 for the puppy

Now neither of these two puppies should have been bred as their parents have had no health tests done & if experience proves me right at least one of them will have serious health issues. This also goes for several GSD & Labrador puppies that come to one of my training classes & again bred from unhealth tested parents & bought quite cheaply. Two of these GSDs are unsound & one of the Labradors is plainly undersized & lame !

If these owners had passed a dog ownership test before buying their puppies, they would have been armed with all the questions to ask about health etc before buying their dogs & wouldn't have gone to the pet/puppy farmer/dealers they did for a puppy. having to buy a dog licence after getting their puppies would not have stopped them getting these puppies

I am all for anything that helps educate the public about the pitfalls of buying puppies from untested stock. What worries me far more is the destruction of breeds by people who do not care either way, and the effect indiscriminate breeding is having on the public perception of certain breeds. Not to mention the casualties that occur because of it.

Bull breeds are being bred indiscriminately for profit (or just because they can) by certain people with little or no thought to their lines, hereditary disease or temperament. Breeding license is not required, and anyone can mate their dog to anyone else's, If the puppies are not sold they are given away, but many are passed on to second and third owners, or abandoned into the rescue system, Some are used for fighting or status symbols, and treated cruelly to make them "tough" This is much more prevalent in the cities, where pretty much every dog you see when out and about is a staff, staff cross or Pitbull (there are still plenty around in the wrong hands due to BYB). I am not saying that all of these dogs have bad owners, but for certain members of the population having a bitch = letting her have puppies regardless. On a visit to Battersea when looking for a rescue, almost all of the available dogs where Staff type breed.

A dog ownership test would not deter many of these people, nor would dog licensing, to me, anyone who breeds should be able to demonstrate a knowledge and expertise. whether is is 1 litter or 5 litters.

Why should I have to have my dogs neutered & chipped ? My males have never sired an unplanned litter in all the time I have had males & my bitches have never had an unwanted pregnancy in the 50 + years I have owned bitches

Who said you should?

It appears that instead of responsible ownership & education the majority of pet owners use an intrusive operation(neutering)to as birth control for dogs.

So... you would prefer all dogs and bitches to remain entire - that would really boost the unwanted dog/puppy population ten fold. You may be responsible but there are a lot of owners who are not

Its a well known fact that bitches that are spayed are saved the misery of possible tumours later in life. Life threatening pyos, indiscriminate breeding litter after litter. Neutering saves males from prostrate cancer - roaming and searching for bitches in season.

As someone involved in rescue and seen the results of indiscrimate breeding - misery of puppies having puppies [oh, she got out and the dog down the road got her excuse] - all this could have been avoided if they had got their bitch spayed and the "dog down the road" neutered.

Where have I written that all dogs & bitches should remain entire ?? I'm having my bitch spayed this year, because she has irregular seasons & ergo runs the greater risk of developing Pyrometra.
Your reasoning confirms that you prefer invasive procedures to education for pet owners, by inferring that the majority of dog owners are not responsible


Spaying bitches prevents pyrometras & uterine & ovarian cancer no womb/ovaries nowhere for the infection/cancer to develop it does not prevent mammarian cancer, but reduces the incidence very slightly.

As for bitches being not bred from season after season, do you really think that pupppy farmers will spay their bitches to pay a reduved licence ???? Give up a very easy & moneymaking income ??

Actually the risk is slighltly increased for castrated males-it is testicular cancer that castration prevents-no testicles nowhere for testicular cancer to develop

Do you think that you are the only person who is actively involved in rescue ????? I've been involved in GSD rescue for most of my life & I am sadly all too well aware of bad breeding practices. Do you think that pet owners will discontinue indiscrimminate breeding just to pay a lower licence fee ???

Licencing has not worked in Northern Ireland, the figures prove it, so why should it work in the rest of the UK ?

Here anyway, it boils down to the fact that the responsible will pay for a licence and those that wont - dont

I really like this idea. Lots of people I know who have dogs but aren't necessarily great owners still took their dogs to puppy training when they first got them so It'd be a good incentive for people to keep up with the training. It might also reduce the numbers of pet dogs ending up in rescues because they're 'badly behaved' too

Lots of people I know who have pet dogs still believe in the idea that breeding their dogs is good for them too so perhaps if these owners were going to training it would be a good platform to talk to them about why this is untrue, what they should do if their dog gets pregnant accidentally or what they need to do if they want to breed their dog (e.g. health tests). You could also then emphasize how expensive it is to breed a litter & it might put pet owners off from breeding their dog because he/she has a nice temperament or is cute. It still wouldn't tackle the problem of BYBs but it would probably help to deter at least a few people.

Another thing I like the idea of is maybe giving owners money off their license if they rescue a dog, more if they rescue a dog over 4 years old. Or giving breeders a significant amount off of their license if they can prove that their dogs are health tested or owners money off if they can prove their dog is from health tested parents... but I'm not sure if that last idea is really very achievable as I'm not quite sure how it'd all work & get processed.

Of course, all of this relies on licenses being policed & properly checked etc. which seems to be the main downfall of the system anyway

How about if responsible Breeders had the facility to issue dog licences with any puppies they sold along with rescue centres doing the same.

In Pounds here you have to buy a licence before homing a dog.

The responsible breeders could get a discount for a breeders licence and the price of puppy licences would be obtained back from the purchase of the puppy + its licence from the new owner?

If puppy farms or BYB had to "pay" for batches of licences prior to breeding [to issue to owners] along with paying for their breeders licence, it may make them think twice. It would not be so lucrative for them to mass produce puppies. ?

Perhaps it would make the public more aware of who is and who isnt a puppy farmer and BYB.

OR - is this just early morning ramblings!!

I didn't know we still had dog licences in the UK. i thought they were scrapped years ago!

i think it's a good idea in principle and may work if as they report says, a certain amount of the revenue would go towards enforcement procedures where the lawsthat are available are actually used.

having said that, I'd keep the RSPCA well out of it. They run a business, they don't care for animals. I'd acertasinly allow responsible breeders, dog owners and rescues a say in how things should be done.

I'ver had no end of vists from the Local Authority and RSPCA because of malicious complaints form my neighbours abotu my dogs (apparently they were barking all day and night, disturbing my neighbours when they were in kennels about 15 miles away!). I've been accused of all sorts of silly things, including breeding without a licence because I have 4 dogs.
As all mine are neutered/speyed. I'd have a hard job breeding!

Also, with regard to BYBs - I had Ellie form a BYB. They used to be friends of mine (definitely are not any more). They had a GSD and Akita and decided to breed from them. When Ellie was 5 weeks ld they decidede that because she didn't look like a GSD (and she's turned out to look not even like an Akita but a Kai Ken), they were going to drown her.

They wanted money for her but I refused to pay and walked off with her. Technically, I am a thief. She was their property and I took her, without the intention of paying for her or returning her. I didn't hear anythign about it after that but IMO, BYBs will continue to breed and make money form those who are either ignorant to the facts or the law, or just don't want to be bothered with going to a licenced breeder or rescue.

Laura xx