+R & Famous - where?

I was just wondering, as we often get people criticizing the methods used on Dog Borstal etc, but we never get to hear of the complete antithesis yet equally famous/successful lot.

Is it because they don't exist?

Is it because it's not possible to use such methods on a large cross selection of dogs with a variety of problems? (i.e. what you would encounter as a professional, therefore have a proven track record in the first place to be approached for such shows.)

Why, if it is so good, haven't we heard of someone in the mainstream, on TV, using such methods?

Sorry if this sounds like a pot shot at +R methods (it's not), its just that it seems many people who are into it are quick to criticize other methods yet on the other hand fail to show viable alternatives. By viable I mean something which is viable, to a normal person with a normal job and other normal responsibilities We all want to do our best, but many of us don't have 24 hours in a day to attend to our dogs alone, so we need something that is practical as well as acceptable.

So in the interest of balance and fairness I'm starting this thread to try to find out whether +R is a viable doable alternative so say, methods used in Dog Borstal.

maybe +R (took me a while to work that one out lol) just isnt good tv? Besides I thought some of the methods on DB are +R, not all admittedly but many of them and they are effective.
Becky

Have you ever watched a working dolphin? Ever wondered how zoo animals are trained to put their arm to the cage bars so they can be vaccinated, or how elephants are trained to lift up their feet for them to be examined? Believe me, it isn't with rattle bottles, choke chains or e-collars

Dog training programmes are few and far between and, at the moment, the controversial are more than likely to be chosen to appear on them rather than the ones who just get the job done

The ones busy helping as many dogs as they can don`t have time to do tv shows, they care more about really helping dogs and their owners rather than being a five minute TV `celeb` pretending that `one method fixes all`

Just to make it clear, Positive is not `one method`, its an ethos which encompasses *many* positive based methodologies for which each individual dog should be assessed as to which elements suit each dog to achieve *real* long term results :smt001

Can I just put up my hand and say;


I don't have a clue what you are talking about. I don't see any of the dog training programmes on tv, but follow threads here, and have no idea what "+R" means or what it involves.

It means positive reinforcement, Evie.

The ethos is to put the emphasis on rewarding good behaviour rather than punishing the bad

In addition to what Bierley has put, the +R camp don't like 'any' kind of negativity in training, such as using rattle bottles, pulling on the leash, raising your voice, aversion training with horns etc etc

Well at least that's how it comes across - is that the case guys?

I haven't seen DB so can't comment I understand it contained a mixture of methods some good some not so good .

I have seen a few of the Victoria Stillwell programs but by no means all of them. I would say the ones I saw were based on +R methods and included the use of lures/rewards/reinforcing positive behaviour. I found them ok My only criticism is that people could get the impression that all dogs can learn quickly when this is not the case, some take more time than others.

I think Ian Dunbar one of the fathers of +R had a series on television once but I didn't get chance to see it.

By my interpretation +R is not so much a training method but a way of looking at every aspect of a dogs life and shaping naturally occurring behaviour .Training becomes part of a dogs everyday life, things once taught are continually reinforced .

+R training takes time and patience, I guess because of this it doesn't readily lend itself to the quick fix/ instant success demonstrations required by television.

I think if more people used +R methods problems that need correction wouldn't develop in the first place.

Is it viable method for a normal person with a job to use ? I don't see why not, it means at those times when you are with your dog you are continually on the look out for suitable behaviour to reward and reinforce,it takes a little more thought and time than some methods and a lot of patience but I think it is worth it in the end .

I agree with Mini.
I think alos that the reson the truly =R mehtods aren't shown is because they are a way of life and thinking and you would have to follow someone 24/7 for months to see it working properly, they are not, generally 'quick fix' methods they take time and patience and so that doesn't make riveting TV does it?

Yes - VS is for the most part very good. A few worries over the programme with the spaniel, but overall I'd recommend her programme to pet dog owners

I long to see him on tv again, even a repeat of "Training dogs with Dunbar".
I think he'd appeal to everyone - he was funny, knowledgeable, excellent sense of humour, always in control, always helpful, always had answers or if not would say why, and above all was really helping dogs and owners. He was also very much no-nonsense and put a lot of emphasis on controlling with voice. I remember him teaching the Watch and it was just so good - he was whispering to the dog (true dog whisperer!! ).


As you say Mini, he was one of the main founders of reward based training in the UK with his lure and reward method of training

RE some of the modern programmes - I think what has happened is that tv has changed. One person who would have been totally fabulous for one of the series we all see was deemed not actually suitable for the type of programme they wanted to show . Ie although a fab trainer, she wasn't "hard" enough in character or presumably dress or anything else. Same with another top behaviourist. So it's not that they aren't available, just that tv has its own ideas about a "watcheable" programme.

And there's so many who would lap up a programme like the old Dunbar one, or one with clicker training - as long as the format was good and not dumbed down, which I loathe I am afraid.

Wys
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