Sorely disappointed

I went to a training class tonight and couldn't believe what I saw

First of all, it is a course afterall so I can't go - it starts in the middle of my exams and I'm often ill so want a class I can go to without having to prepay. I'm not sure what my friend was on about as she gave me loads of details of prices and times which were wrong, but I definitely went to the right place

Anyway, we got there and were told to go and sit on the back row out of the way, it was ok until 4 dogs came round sniffing Takara and she was feeling flustered because she had chairs right in front of her and dogs all around her and she snapped.

There were a couple of aggressive dogs there, who's owners shouted at them 'NO!' everytime they snapped or growled at another dog... surely the dogs would associate other dogs with being told off, therefore negatively and this would make matters worse?!

There were two 20 week old puppies there who were being pushed to a 'sit' and 'down' position and no praise when they got it right.
It was basically, tell the dog off if it doesn't do it right and no praise if it does

By 20 weeks Takara would sit without me touching her and I taught her through positive reinforcement.

They don't believe in any tit bits not even for the 13 week old puppies that start off there!

When teaching heel, if the dogs went out of line, they were yanked back by the lead and shouted 'no' at if they did it wrong.

I can't understand how the trainers' dogs were so well behaved because I didn't agree with the training methods used at all!

I won't be going back there - I'd rather pay a little bit more for somewhere I agree with and I can use my trusty clicker!

That doesn't sound right to me at all and if you are not in agreement with their methods, I would go home - and not go back there again!
It is vital that you go to training classes that you and your dog feel comfortable with, after all, whatever you learn there will need to be practised at home so if it isn't the method you use - unless you can be convinced otherwise - I would leave it.
It doesn't sound like it would be suitable for a Dally anyway, they thrive on positive reinforcement - and I guess, most other dogs would too!

Thanks - I agree completely!

I won't be going back - Takara is very well trained already all through positive reinforcement so I'm not going to change my methods to telling her off for minor mistakes!

It was unbelievable to watch the lack of interaction between dog and owner when Takara does something I've asked her to she gets at least verbal praise and usually a good fuss too, but no, these got nothing...

They were two weeks off their Good Citizen Award test and to be honest, it was all a bit pants!

I would train most dogs with postive reinforcement (especially dallies! ) but especially puppies! These pups had no praise, fuss or even tit bits from their handlers! I was just astonished.

I'll be looking for a different class methinks!

The kc registered classes which teach GCDS classes are supposed to only use kind, positive training methods. If you witnessed otherwise i'd report them.

Don't get me wrong, they weren't cruel to the dogs but there was just an overall negative tone to the training! Takara wouldn't do it, she only trains when we're having fun doing it and it's all positive reinforcement but without being cruel to the dogs, they didn't use postive reinforcement either if you know what I mean?

There was a distinct lack of praise and fuss and it didn't look at all fun to me!

Not everyone was shouting at the dogs but they had obviously been told to do this by the trainers because the ones with aggressive dogs yanked them back and shouted 'no' at them.

I don't think you could accuse them of being cruel or abusive towards the dogs, but I wouldn't choose to train that way (and wouldn't offer anyone advice telling them to train that way either!) and I won't be going back!

If the pups haven't learnt sit and down at 20 weeks there must be something really wrong somewhere. I've never had a puppy that wouldn't do sit and down on command by the time it was 10-11 weeks old.

It sounds a bad class to me - have you tried looking at www.apdt.co.uk for a kind, fair and effective class which should be run more to the way you are happy with?

Sometimes trainers who use older methods will be quite forceful with their own dogs and sometimes end up with dogs who are repressed rather than well behaved, although it's hard to tell unless you can read dogs very very well indeed. They can often appear well behaved.

Some dogs will just get used to their owner's methods, and work to avoid punishment - one way to do it, but not particularly pleasant for the dog and it shows the owner/trainer is a bit of a dinosaur

That sounds awful Lottie, Poor Takara I am glad you walked out. Im sure you'll find a nicer place soon enough

Thanks guys,

Albionlass - I know, I taught Takara by getting her to sit by herself not forcing her into a sit position and she picked it up in no more than 4 days! 8 weeks old and she would sit on command (down took a bit longer )

Wysiwig, the dogs seemed really happy though that's what I couldn't understand! I've met dogs who's owners hit them and although they're 'well behaved' they always look a bit timid.

This guy's dog worked on sign language and was wagging his tail the whole time, but I know for a fact that Takara simply wouldn't respond to that training.

This morning, Amanda who walks Alfie (black lab) in the park told me that the training class at the church I used to go to is a drop in class - they probably don't do Good Citizen Award because it isn't a course but for now I just want her to be able to walk on lead. She's perfect in every other way Of course she'd get a lot of socialisation too.

It's on a Tuesday night so I will see how I get on today and see if I have time to go up and say hi!

Thanks! I needed to make sure I wasn't over reacting! I hated seeing all that bad training! I wanted to get up and say 'do it like this!!!' I'm sure that I knew more about training a dog positively than those trainers!!!

You are definately right not to take her back there - you would almost certainly take a step back in her training and not have much fun in the process... how disappointing for you.

I know it can get really expensive but if it is just the lead walking that is a problem could you not just try to book a couple of one-2-one sessions with a trainer/behaviourist that you know uses methods you agree with instead of going to a class? That way you would get the trainers 100% attention and be able to say what you want to concentrate on. Obviously a class would be better for socialising but I'm sure she gets that on her walks anyway?

It might even work out more economical than paying for a whole course and not being able to attend half the sessions?