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Sal
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10-02-2011, 11:51 AM

Anti social Behaviour - The Cause

Following on from a recent thread about ASB,
What do you think are the contributing factors for people,teens etc to act in An Anti social manner ?
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IsoChick
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10-02-2011, 12:05 PM
Lack of respect for anyone/anything

Culture of no-blame ("I know my rights")

Lack of real punishment/retribution etc
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ClaireandDaisy
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10-02-2011, 12:30 PM
Poor parenting.
The school I help at does parenting classes and they are always full and really popular.
BTW some of the rudest children I deal with come from fairly affluent homes. It`s not a `class` thing.
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AliceandDogs
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10-02-2011, 12:38 PM
Boredom.

And poor parenting which neglects to help children to manage this boredom, prefering to send them off to play with mates who rile each other up.
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Kerryowner
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10-02-2011, 12:50 PM
Poor parenting I think. Lack of respect for other people. Rights not repsonsibilities.
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dizzi
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10-02-2011, 01:31 PM
Lack of any consequences to actions - absolutely ridiculous in some schools I've been in where a kid can thump another, be sent to the head and be returned 10 minutes later with a shiny sticker and a "oooh behave this time."
A total culture of appeasement - from within schools where it's a sticker if Damien doesn't hit someone for 2 minutes, or "write two sentences and you can have a sticker" through to parents wanting to be liked by their kids and scared of the word "no"... surprisingly I didn't turn out hating my mum because she once said I couldn't go to the school disco because I hadn't done my homework - but people seem to have lost this perspective.
(Dons flameproof suit for this one)Working parent guilt - lack of actual time, overcompensated for by "stuff" - seen that one a lot in some very affluent areas
A culture where everyone demands rights - from adults through to children - but where the concept of responsibility's gone right out of the window
When parents immediately go up to the school to play hell on when a child's been sanctioned in school - it's got to levels where kids will call parents on mobile phones to get them to come up and play hell on in some schools. When I was a kid I was more worried about the wrath of my mum for me getting into trouble at school - while she might have privately disagreed with some of their decisions - she backed them 100% to my face... these days that's right out of the window completely - I've seen colleagues sworn at, physically threatened and terrified by parents' laying into them in front of their kids... who aren't exactly going to respect the head when they've just seen their mum scream at her for 30 minutes over a lost coat
Boredom - kids have forgotten how to play, how to make their own amusement - if it doesn't require batteries or a plug, and flash, flicker and provide an electronic kick every 30 seconds... it's not something a lot of kids can focus on - so later when they get to teenage years - they're boooooorrrred and there's nowt with more potential for mayhem than a bright bored kid with time on their hands.
Poor language coming into schools - it's a massive massive issue - there are more and more kids coming up with very very poor language development - if you can't communicate on the level of your peers - you can't access the school curriculum - you become frustrated because you can't get your feelings across - you lash out... and the trouble is we're now hitting the second generation of this type of kids and their own children - so the problem's getting worse and worse.

It starts incredibly young - and there's naff all real help in place to try to stop these kids before they head off in the wrong direction. I stopped teaching full-time when I banged away desperately trying to get help for one kid with real anger management issues who "wasn't bad enough to be helped"... I know with the way that kid was heading aged about 8/9 that when he's 14/15 someone is going to rub him up the wrong way and he will lash out - and he's the sort of easily led one who'd fall in with a bunch of mates who'd egg him on to do something daft like carry a knife. I was trying desperately to get something in place to stop the future that was becoming so clear for this kid - and being knocked back at every turn. It almost broke me as a person and it destroyed my faith in the future of this country.

One kid we DID get support for... "he has a problem with the word no - make sure he never gets told no when wanting to do something"... that's fine and good - but when this kid is a 6 foot tall lad - someone sooner or later is going to say no to him - and he'll go ballistic.

Like most who work in schools I've seen assaults, I've been assaulted - but each year I've seen more and more extreme behaviour coming through schools... infants threatening their TAs with scissors at their throat, language that would make ME blush (and I swear a lot when not at work), I've had to restrain children and it's getting worse and worse... and these are generally infants. My heart breaks for those kids you see in the class who just roll their eyes to the ceiling and sigh in a world-weary way that "he's always like this Miss." And no one ever dares say - look this isn't on.

I was a nightmare as a kid - managed to get myself excluded from primary school at one point. But every single one of my misdeeds had a consequence, every bit of back chat had a comeback - and I pushed the line... but by heck I towed it! I think that's what's got lost - kids will always be kids and push boundaries, teenagers will always have the tendency to lose the plot and not think when there's groups of them together - but these days... no one says "no."
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hectorsmum
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10-02-2011, 03:17 PM
Originally Posted by dizzi View Post
Lack of any consequences to actions - absolutely ridiculous in some schools I've been in where a kid can thump another, be sent to the head and be returned 10 minutes later with a shiny sticker and a "oooh behave this time."
A total culture of appeasement - from within schools where it's a sticker if Damien doesn't hit someone for 2 minutes, or "write two sentences and you can have a sticker" through to parents wanting to be liked by their kids and scared of the word "no"... surprisingly I didn't turn out hating my mum because she once said I couldn't go to the school disco because I hadn't done my homework - but people seem to have lost this perspective.
(Dons flameproof suit for this one)Working parent guilt - lack of actual time, overcompensated for by "stuff" - seen that one a lot in some very affluent areas
A culture where everyone demands rights - from adults through to children - but where the concept of responsibility's gone right out of the window
When parents immediately go up to the school to play hell on when a child's been sanctioned in school - it's got to levels where kids will call parents on mobile phones to get them to come up and play hell on in some schools. When I was a kid I was more worried about the wrath of my mum for me getting into trouble at school - while she might have privately disagreed with some of their decisions - she backed them 100% to my face... these days that's right out of the window completely - I've seen colleagues sworn at, physically threatened and terrified by parents' laying into them in front of their kids... who aren't exactly going to respect the head when they've just seen their mum scream at her for 30 minutes over a lost coat
Boredom - kids have forgotten how to play, how to make their own amusement - if it doesn't require batteries or a plug, and flash, flicker and provide an electronic kick every 30 seconds... it's not something a lot of kids can focus on - so later when they get to teenage years - they're boooooorrrred and there's nowt with more potential for mayhem than a bright bored kid with time on their hands.
Poor language coming into schools - it's a massive massive issue - there are more and more kids coming up with very very poor language development - if you can't communicate on the level of your peers - you can't access the school curriculum - you become frustrated because you can't get your feelings across - you lash out... and the trouble is we're now hitting the second generation of this type of kids and their own children - so the problem's getting worse and worse.

It starts incredibly young - and there's naff all real help in place to try to stop these kids before they head off in the wrong direction. I stopped teaching full-time when I banged away desperately trying to get help for one kid with real anger management issues who "wasn't bad enough to be helped"... I know with the way that kid was heading aged about 8/9 that when he's 14/15 someone is going to rub him up the wrong way and he will lash out - and he's the sort of easily led one who'd fall in with a bunch of mates who'd egg him on to do something daft like carry a knife. I was trying desperately to get something in place to stop the future that was becoming so clear for this kid - and being knocked back at every turn. It almost broke me as a person and it destroyed my faith in the future of this country.

One kid we DID get support for... "he has a problem with the word no - make sure he never gets told no when wanting to do something"... that's fine and good - but when this kid is a 6 foot tall lad - someone sooner or later is going to say no to him - and he'll go ballistic.

Like most who work in schools I've seen assaults, I've been assaulted - but each year I've seen more and more extreme behaviour coming through schools... infants threatening their TAs with scissors at their throat, language that would make ME blush (and I swear a lot when not at work), I've had to restrain children and it's getting worse and worse... and these are generally infants. My heart breaks for those kids you see in the class who just roll their eyes to the ceiling and sigh in a world-weary way that "he's always like this Miss." And no one ever dares say - look this isn't on.

I was a nightmare as a kid - managed to get myself excluded from primary school at one point. But every single one of my misdeeds had a consequence, every bit of back chat had a comeback - and I pushed the line... but by heck I towed it! I think that's what's got lost - kids will always be kids and push boundaries, teenagers will always have the tendency to lose the plot and not think when there's groups of them together - but these days... no one says "no."
WOW!!!!!

I couldnt have said it better myself
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smokeybear
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10-02-2011, 03:21 PM
The same as it is for dogs!

Poor examples set by parents/owners; low expectations; lack of consistency; no consequences for good/poor behaviour.

Which results in them not staying very long in work when we ask them to turn up on time, actually do some work, etc etc.
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SLB
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10-02-2011, 03:41 PM
All of the above.

When I was ever bored as a child, my mum would take us on two hour long walks, bake a cake, help us tidy our room (well she had too we just sat there in awe at all the things we'd lost among the mess ) As I got older, Sadie came into my life - OK so many of you are against children walking dogs, but Sadie was brilliant, at a year old (I was 11) I started walking her, then training her to do tricks, she was what I looked forward to afterschool the most. And unlike other teenagers, I wasn't sucked into drugs and alcohol (OK so I had the odd drink at weekends, but it was always in the house and I was always safe.) I had Sadie to keep me active and keep my mind focused. I have 5 best friends - but I always said I had 6 because I did, I had Sadie. I also loved art, photography and long walks, so had no time to hang around a street corner with a bottle of cider, I didn't have a phone til I was 13 and wasn't allowed a computer in my room until I had serious homework assignments to do that would take me more than the hour my Dad let us use his computer for.

I think it's the number of people, that are moved into estates that change the dynamic.

When I was little, we weren't allowed on the front til I was 7, unless with my older brother/sister or my next door neighbours son - he's about 3 years older. Everyone knew each other, Neighbours looked out for each other. As I got older, less people knew each other, less people trusted each other and now - I know the odd person on my street, the rest are just rabble they moved in.

Kids now leave their bikes in the road and paths. Dogs are allowed to roam, kids as young as 3 are running around in the street...Adie almost ran over several of them, 5 miles an hour onto my street and the kids just walking in the road - one acknowledged the car but didn't move out of it...so I beeped the horn (I am going to be a very rude driver - I can for see that ) They turned round and gave me the finger and these weren't teens - these were 6-7 year olds!

The lack of discipline also. I was smacked as a child - however I wasn't that naughty. It's done me no harm, I don't agree with it, but it did me no harm, I learnt my manners and even remind my Dad of them - like when he interrupts me speaking to say some mindless rubbish. Even at work the other day, our manager was ordering us to do something - I asked him where his manners were, if he's 3 months younger than me, he can respect me as an elder Children should really have punishments as well as rewards. People can rationalise between right and wrong, that's what makes us different from dogs... thats why time outs work better for children, thats why scrubbing the desks clean at school works better (That and dogs don't understand the concept). If I did something good - I was given trips to the shop or sweets, if I did something bad I was sent to my room - of which did not have anything like teens bedrooms do now.

I have never betrayed my mum and dad's trust or respect. And I do speak back - but it's never taken seriously as I'm from Yorkshire and I was brought up with some cheek but I know when to limit myself - I know who I can cheek and get away and who I have to conduct myself properly around.

So basically what everyone else says.

NB: I never said hitting a child was right and I also said that children should have both punishments and rewards - just incase someone mistakes what I have said.
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Pilgrim
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10-02-2011, 04:24 PM
Originally Posted by dizzi View Post
Lack of any consequences to actions - absolutely ridiculous in some schools I've been in where a kid can thump another, be sent to the head and be returned 10 minutes later with a shiny sticker and a "oooh behave this time."
A total culture of appeasement - from within schools where it's a sticker if Damien doesn't hit someone for 2 minutes, or "write two sentences and you can have a sticker" through to parents wanting to be liked by their kids and scared of the word "no"... surprisingly I didn't turn out hating my mum because she once said I couldn't go to the school disco because I hadn't done my homework - but people seem to have lost this perspective.
(Dons flameproof suit for this one)Working parent guilt - lack of actual time, overcompensated for by "stuff" - seen that one a lot in some very affluent areas
A culture where everyone demands rights - from adults through to children - but where the concept of responsibility's gone right out of the window
When parents immediately go up to the school to play hell on when a child's been sanctioned in school - it's got to levels where kids will call parents on mobile phones to get them to come up and play hell on in some schools. When I was a kid I was more worried about the wrath of my mum for me getting into trouble at school - while she might have privately disagreed with some of their decisions - she backed them 100% to my face... these days that's right out of the window completely - I've seen colleagues sworn at, physically threatened and terrified by parents' laying into them in front of their kids... who aren't exactly going to respect the head when they've just seen their mum scream at her for 30 minutes over a lost coat
Boredom - kids have forgotten how to play, how to make their own amusement - if it doesn't require batteries or a plug, and flash, flicker and provide an electronic kick every 30 seconds... it's not something a lot of kids can focus on - so later when they get to teenage years - they're boooooorrrred and there's nowt with more potential for mayhem than a bright bored kid with time on their hands.
Poor language coming into schools - it's a massive massive issue - there are more and more kids coming up with very very poor language development - if you can't communicate on the level of your peers - you can't access the school curriculum - you become frustrated because you can't get your feelings across - you lash out... and the trouble is we're now hitting the second generation of this type of kids and their own children - so the problem's getting worse and worse.

It starts incredibly young - and there's naff all real help in place to try to stop these kids before they head off in the wrong direction. I stopped teaching full-time when I banged away desperately trying to get help for one kid with real anger management issues who "wasn't bad enough to be helped"... I know with the way that kid was heading aged about 8/9 that when he's 14/15 someone is going to rub him up the wrong way and he will lash out - and he's the sort of easily led one who'd fall in with a bunch of mates who'd egg him on to do something daft like carry a knife. I was trying desperately to get something in place to stop the future that was becoming so clear for this kid - and being knocked back at every turn. It almost broke me as a person and it destroyed my faith in the future of this country.

One kid we DID get support for... "he has a problem with the word no - make sure he never gets told no when wanting to do something"... that's fine and good - but when this kid is a 6 foot tall lad - someone sooner or later is going to say no to him - and he'll go ballistic.

Like most who work in schools I've seen assaults, I've been assaulted - but each year I've seen more and more extreme behaviour coming through schools... infants threatening their TAs with scissors at their throat, language that would make ME blush (and I swear a lot when not at work), I've had to restrain children and it's getting worse and worse... and these are generally infants. My heart breaks for those kids you see in the class who just roll their eyes to the ceiling and sigh in a world-weary way that "he's always like this Miss." And no one ever dares say - look this isn't on.

I was a nightmare as a kid - managed to get myself excluded from primary school at one point. But every single one of my misdeeds had a consequence, every bit of back chat had a comeback - and I pushed the line... but by heck I towed it! I think that's what's got lost - kids will always be kids and push boundaries, teenagers will always have the tendency to lose the plot and not think when there's groups of them together - but these days... no one says "no."

Couldn't agree more
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