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Baxter8
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24-11-2012, 08:34 AM
If only dogsey.com was compulsory reading and consulting for all new dog owners wouldn't it be a happier place for dogs.

I am extremely careful about what I ask of my dog. As the control headcollars and/or dogmatics seem a little bit more humane I might try one of those.

The weather as you all probably know has been shocking in Somerset so I have been reduced to walking him on lanes around the village as the fields are soaked through and dangerous, so need him to walk well on a lead.

I have spent hours training him to walk nicely on a lead and he will for a week or two and then he seems to forget and we go back to square one - he is an extremely inquisitive dog and very easily distracted, like most dogs I guess.

I have seen little dogs who pose no threat to man nor beast being subjected to these haltis as a first port of call and you can see the misery in their eyes. I have also seen the odd over-friendly labrador wearing one who seems quite relaxed and happy. I guess I would only use one if I need him to be good without question i.e if it was dark, rainy, lots of distractions and hazards and possibly dangerous, otherwise I'd continue my training him to walk well.
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Baxter8
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24-11-2012, 08:37 AM
Agree with all you say - sadly a lot of new inexperienced dog owners just see dog-pulling = buy a gadget = use it, they don't consider the impact on the dog's anatomy or wellbeing.

Originally Posted by labradork View Post
When introduced to the dog correctly AND used correctly by the owner, yes I think they are excellent tools that definitely have their place.

For many large and giant breed dog owners they are a security net. Even a large breed dog that walks perfectly 98% of the time may slip up occasionally and lets face it, most large dogs can easily over power a human. I know a lady who has a German Shepherd and a Leonberger; both walk beautifully and are well trained but she will always use head collars for them. She knows full well that if they decided to lunge one day they can easily over power her so she doesn't take the the chance.

The problem with head collars is that rarely does an owner introduce them to the dog correctly, nor do the vast majority of people know how to a.) choose the most appropriate style for their dog, b.) know how to fit them correctly and c.) know how to use them correctly. I have seen countless puppies wearing head collars, terrible fitting head collars that are either far too tight impeding the eyes or so loose they are dangerous and my least favourite sight.....someone using a head collar in combination with a Flexi (retractable) lead.

Most people go to a pet shop, buy the first one on the shelf and hope it fits then shove it on the dog as a quick fix solution to stop their dog from pulling. Of course it doesn't work that way which is why you see so many miserable dogs wearing them.

So yes they are perfectly humane when used correctly, but like any other tool they can be abused and make it very uncomfortable for the dog.
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Baxter8
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24-11-2012, 08:39 AM
Nothing worse than unpredictable lunges! Been there done that!

I think I'm getting the message that it's all about good introduction and good fitting. Overall making it a positive experience for the dog.

Originally Posted by Lezley View Post
Hi,
I agree fitted correctly they are a good tool - both of mine wear halties and walk reasonable well by my side - Samson lunges are unpredictable so it helps me to control him. I do walk mine around the garden leashed to their collars as a training excersise which is helping me and getting them used to following just slighly behind.
Lez
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Baxter8
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24-11-2012, 08:41 AM
Thank you for your advice and your link to your blog, I'm going to look into the control headcollar from Pets at home. As I say, he wears a muzzle - but if I'm out on lanes and have him under control I would use the headcollar.

Originally Posted by Tarimoor View Post
I don't like haltis or any device that puts pressure around the muzzle to prevent your dog pulling. I don't use any head collars, my dogs aren't perfect, neither am I, but I prefer to teach my dogs to walk to heel nicely. I appreciate that some people can't always achieve this, but there are nicer devices than halti's and those that work by putting pressure around the muzzle:

http://liziangel.blogspot.co.uk/2011...d-collars.html
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Baxter8
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24-11-2012, 08:42 AM
Yes my thoughts exactly - not really sure I like them. I might try a modified version of them after reading some of the comments on here.

Originally Posted by Bitkin View Post
I appreciate the point made that they have to be fitted and used correctly, but unfortunately how often does this happen? The majority of dogs that I have seen wearing them look dreadfully uncomfortable with the straps right under their eyes.

I have also seen a dog duck out of it's halti, with near disastrous results.

Not sure that I like them to be honest.
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Baxter8
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24-11-2012, 08:43 AM
Thanks for the link to the other post - I love clicker training. I will try that one.

Originally Posted by Minihaha View Post
Hello Baxter I can't really comment on Haltis because I have never used one but I have a feeling the makers are the people responsible for the excellent adjustable lead with two clips which I do use

If people take the time to train a dog not to pull they won't need a Halti ...

How to train not to pull is described in this thread..
http://www.dogsey.com/showthread.php?t=176488

Unfortunately many people are not aware of how to train and I would guess having let their puppy establish a habit of pulling then resort various anti pulling devices
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Jackie
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24-11-2012, 10:26 AM
Headcollars can be abused just like collars can, its not about putting one on and hoping its going to teach a dog not to pull, because a puller will pull on a headcollar ora normal collar,

The amount of dogs you see choking the life out of themselves on a normal collar and lead (funny enough its usually collies and springers) walking down the road with a handler being pulled behind them , is equally as harmful to the dog as a misused headcollar that rides up the dogs nose into his eyes , the dog is still pulling and will still pull unless its taught not to.

In saying that the head collar can give you a little more control if and when its needed, I don`t like haltis , they never seem to sit right on a dogs head, I DO like and use (on occasion) "the dogmatic" , they seem to fit better and don`t ride and dig into eyes... that said if the dog still pulls they will be uncomfortable.

I like to use a headcollar with a double ended "halti" lead, fixing one end to the normal collar and the other to the headcollar, only using the headcollar, when and if its needed.

Up to 18 mths ago I had 2 Boxers, that could be walked together on a lead and collar, (I am only 5ft) and because I have spent time with each dog, teaching them to walk nicely on collar and lead, its never really been a problem, BUT I did/do use the dogmatic on occasion, when we go to vets, or in confined spaces, it just gives me an added extra to control an active dog.

In saying that, if you do have a puller and a halti makes life easier for you on walks, then its better to use one, than not take the dog out at all, but you can still use the halti/headcollar to teach a dog to walk nicely....by using the double ended lead.


There is someone near me, who owns a lovely Weimaraner, have watched her walking this girl from a very young pup, and ALWAYS on a halti, the dog is now around 2 yrs old, still on a halti and still pulling, if they had only took the time when dog was a pup to train her,


Its like any tool you use, they can be used correctly and to benefit you , OR they can be abused,
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Wozzy
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24-11-2012, 11:02 AM
I use them on one of my dogs, but I dont like using them, and my dog doesnt like wearing them. I have several different headcollars, including a Dogmatic and has already been pointed out, he still pulls like a train because I have taught him no different.

Pure laziness on my part because my dogs are off lead 95% of the time and when they are on lead it's only for a short time so my motivation to teach him to walk nicely has always been low. And, given the fact with this particular dog, loose lead walking will always be a chore and will be a constant battle with him, I just cant be bothered considering how little time they spend on a lead.

So, as a quick fix problem I use a headcollar.
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Tarimoor
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24-11-2012, 11:16 AM
Originally Posted by Baxter8 View Post
Thank you for your advice and your link to your blog, I'm going to look into the control headcollar from Pets at home. As I say, he wears a muzzle - but if I'm out on lanes and have him under control I would use the headcollar.
It's not my blog, it's a lady called Lizi Angel who I've known online for a few years now, she's an independent dog behaviour psychologist. She's very pro positive methods, and although I don't always agree with everything she says, she's pretty spot on with a lot of things, and I completely agree with her about the head collars that grip/tighten around a dogs' muzzle.

She's also a very talented artist and is generally a very nice approachable person to chat to.
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Tarimoor
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24-11-2012, 11:25 AM
Originally Posted by Baxter8 View Post
If only dogsey.com was compulsory reading and consulting for all new dog owners wouldn't it be a happier place for dogs.

I am extremely careful about what I ask of my dog. As the control headcollars and/or dogmatics seem a little bit more humane I might try one of those.

The weather as you all probably know has been shocking in Somerset so I have been reduced to walking him on lanes around the village as the fields are soaked through and dangerous, so need him to walk well on a lead.

I have spent hours training him to walk nicely on a lead and he will for a week or two and then he seems to forget and we go back to square one - he is an extremely inquisitive dog and very easily distracted, like most dogs I guess.

I have seen little dogs who pose no threat to man nor beast being subjected to these haltis as a first port of call and you can see the misery in their eyes. I have also seen the odd over-friendly labrador wearing one who seems quite relaxed and happy. I guess I would only use one if I need him to be good without question i.e if it was dark, rainy, lots of distractions and hazards and possibly dangerous, otherwise I'd continue my training him to walk well.
You need to find a good class that will teach you more than your dog. I used to hate training heelwork, but once you actually learn the handling skills to be able to train it effectively, and how to make it fun for you and the dog, it becomes a lot easier.

The last place to train heelwork is if you've got limited time, I never ask for heel unless I know I can get it, in fact I never ask for anything unless I know the dog will respond. At the moment I'm training the flatcoat's off lead heelwork, it's fairly informal for gundog stuff, they don't have to be glued to your leg.
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