At 16 weeks Orey was retrieving most things to hand, including food that had been dropped, toys and fur dummies, he is NOT a retiriever and has never seen a clicker!!! I do wonder Ailsa how Dogs survived without clickers if they are so wonderful, especially as I have said, years ago Dogs behaved like dogs and had nowhere near as many issues as they do today. I think things are invented to counteract the isssues people have given to dogs through anthromorphic ownership.

Excuse me Spot, but do you know me? Do you know anything about me? I am sure you don't. With the greatest respect, I dislike intensely being told what i can and cannot do with my dog. I am 54 years old, and since the age of 14 have always had at least one dog in the house where I have been living. I don't profess to be an expert in one or all breeds, but I am an unconditional dog lover ... and by lover, I don't mean irresponsible, soppy, or whatever you may wish to call it. I firmly believe that dogs needs discipline and need to know their place in the human pack in which they live ... and that is at the bottom. But what I will not accept is someone asking me to do something unnatural to my dog. When you adopt a child, you are not asked to neuter that child. I never have and never will condone the castration of male dogs willy nilly. As a responsible owner, I will not allow my male dog to stray and cause unwanted pups. For 10 years I owned an entire male, who for at least 5 years of those years was a stud dog. Many people would say to me "you ought to castrate that dog, he's so over-sexed". Why !!! He was behaving as any normal male of any species would behave. I would like to think that my husband would not go round sticking his head up ladies' skirts, but that is probably only because he is so-called "civilised". I would no more want to chop off my husband's crown jewels than I would my own dog, and I am certainly not going to allow any breeder dictate to me what I can and cannot do to a dog I have paid a lot of money for !!

I agree that most if not all rescue centres will neuter and castrate, that is a different matter, if the dog I adopt is already "done", then there is not a lot I can do about it. The dog I was considering adopting is entire, and were I to adopt him, he will remain so.

But were I to buy a pup from a breeder and be told that I had to neuter at the appropriate age, that is a breeder with whom I would not be dealing.

Whereas I am not vastly experienced with rescues, during my doggy lifetime I have rescued 5 dogs, so don't exactly consider myself a complete amateur either. Please don't patronise me !

I think Borderdawn can make up her own mind where to post
She also knows how to debate a difference of opinion like an adult, not have a hissy fit like a petulant child, so debating with her is interesting regardless of agreeing or not.


He entered a country illegally, and got into a business with zero learned knowledge, and got on the TV so yes, what he is about is not dogs, its hero worship of someone who has made it big regardless of him making it big based on something he has no real understanding of.

You take your tylenol if you like, and Dawn will post wherever she likes, she is allowed to you know
At least in Dawns case I can respect her point of view which is about dogs and how their problems are caused by humans, she is`nt standing up for CM just because he`s on the telly and has teeth which should`nt be seen without eye protection from the glare
:smt001

I LOVE that moment

Collie mad ... or was it mishflynn ... said :

Perhaps collies have evolved further away from wolves than other breeds!

Noooooo !! Just the opposite ! I think the wonderful collie is VERY wolf-like still, which makes the breed so wonderful. Supremely intelligent, loyal, hardworking, strong ... AND headstrong ! ... comic (good sense of humour), strong guarding instinct, particularly with "young" ... young humans, pets in their pack (such as hamsters etc. ... what would normally be regarded as prey, but in their own home part of their pack). Easy to train, and yet hard at the same time.

I love collies, don't know why I don't have another one ... it's just Hal has spoilt me for any other breed.

You just don't like that i don't agree with you and you have nothing else to say except call me a petulant child because you got on your high horse correcting me on spelling and you didnt like that i didnt care hence the Whatever! I gave you, but i think you have obvisouly made your point I get it your just a big mean Cyber Bully and I give in you WIN !!, people come here to learn and get advice not talk about American Politics or get called names etc I just hope the next person who just stops by to leave a quick post for someone who was just asking everyones opinon on Caesar Milan remember the 1st post (didn't think so) and if they say they like his teaching, knows that they are the satan of dog onwers and that no matter what they say they will always be wrong and get attacked, like a previous post "don't knock it till you try it" Well i am going to take my American self (you started the American thing) out of this forum I just hope you open your eyes a little more and remember what this website is here for
Arrivederci, Buona Notte

And Oprah is never wrong can't believe I forgot to mention that just so everyone knows he helped her with her dogs and she would not bring him on her show if she didn't beleive also sorry i just wanted to say that and totally forgot

Nope - and why is that ? Because the quick fix would be proved as unreliable in the long term perchance ?


Oh Dawn, no, don`t start me off about Ms StillneverdoesWell

Aw c`mon give me another example, not the same one again about the supposed professional with the attitude of `ooooh goodie, lets use a clicker without understanding the principle of it`


Yes, sadly there are people around who have`nt a clue that dogs actually benefit from training and learning let alone how to apply it, some do think a dog should be treated as a baby-replacement almost literally, and yes those dogs often end up with problems as a result of being given no proper guidance and socialising etc - but someone stepping in to help the dog without punishing that dog for having a numpty owner does`nt mean a non-punitive trainer is `pfaffing` about it

They are not exactly `his` as pets like yours or mine, those dogs don`t live with him, they are kept at one of his Centres where he has employee`s. So who really works with those dogs day to day then, who gives them one to one training time, who tells them they`ve done something good cos he never seems to bother to say it to them...


A cherrypicker you mean - yep I hate that too, thats exactly how these self styled guru`s get their reputations though, by picking and choosing which dogs to use to make themselves look like miracle workers

Patch: you said:

Er - have you ever read the adoption form of a good rescue

Yes I have, and why should that change the way I feel? I know the rules, and I don't happen to agree with them ... with regard to neutering. I will not neuter a perfectly healthy male dog unless for a medical reason. If this precludes me from rescuing a dog, then so be it. If a dog has already been neutered and I wished to adopt him, then obviously there is nothing I can do about it .. he's lost his tackle and it cannot be replaced, I would have to accept it if I wanted to adopt that dog. And of course I would accept it, because not to do so would be downright stupid. And that I am not !!:smt002 :smt002

I have so far only owned Hal in terms of northern breeds. But over the years I have met many people with entire huskies who have told me that they were told by the breeders from whom they purchased their puppy that they must not let him or her off the lead ... ever !! I'm sorry, to me this is the height of cruelty and frankly a load of rubbish. Hal was a husky cross, not a pure husky, he was crossed with Alaskan Malamute ... which makes him even more prone to ... apparently ... running and running and running and never coming back. I'm sorry, but this is just pure rubbish. No-one should ever condemn a dog to a life permanently on the lead. That is the height of cruelty, and there is no such thing as a dog who can never be let off the lead. This is why I get so angry when I am told that I must do, or not do, this that or the other with MY dog. Most of it is absolute rubbish !! There is absolutely no reason on God's earth why a dog should have to lose his nuts for no other reason than a potential stupid owner may allow the dog to stray and indiscriminately mate with another bitch who has also been allowed to stray. I am a responsible dog owner, and will not allow my dog the possibility of mating indiscriminantly. I will be the judge of that, not some third party.

Were I to rescue the dog in question, I would never ever use an e-collar or prong on him ! I don't know why you have brought that up, because it is entirely out of context. If you are referring to the misguided fact that CM approves these collars, then you are very wrong in that assumption, because he does not. And I would be more than happy to sign a Contract to say that I would never ever use such a device on a rescue dog ... or any dog for that matter, except in a very extreme case in a life or death situation.

The type of dog that Hal was means that sadly these beautiful creatures frequently come up for rehoming. They are not easy, no northern breed is easy. The experience I have gained from being priviliged enough to live with Hal for the past 10 years I believe has given me the knowledge and capacity to be able to help one of these wonderful, wilful, NORTY dogs. But I will not have some rescue centre telling me that I have to neuter a healthy male dog. I am very anti castration, it changes a dog's personality ... IMO for the worst ... especially if carried out later in life, rather than earlier. In contrast to spaying females, which has little or no effect on their personality and IMO can only be positive. In my experience, the spaying of those female dogs that I have owned has always been extremely beneficial in every respect, except for the fact that a more careful eye had to be kept on the old waistline !

Sorry to rant ... don't take offence by it, I am not getting at you per se, just "the rules" which are not always for the best. I will concede though that you cannot have 2 sets of rules ... overall, for the sake of the dog, it is far better to have strict rules, than sloppy rules. It is just that I do not like being told what to do with my dog !! Grrrr !!

Oooo Patch, you norty girl you !! When was entering a country illegally ever indicative of not knowng what you're talking about ! You said :

"He entered a country illegally, and got into a business with zero learned knowledge"

If you mean he didn't learn his craft at college, at university, at a posh boarding school, at wherever else you might wish to mention, then you are right. He learned his craft at his grandfather's knee I believe. Where's the harm in this? Why sneer? This is the old, traditional way that homo sapiens has learned everything we know. For thousands of years before we were educated, we have learned from what has been handed down to us by word of mouth, from mother and father, grandmother and grandfather. It is only very recently that we have "education" and "knowledge".

That is VERY patronising of you if I may say so !!