what an excellent post Patch *wishes rep points were still here*

{{{group hug}}}

*takes down fence and extends hand ready for shaking*

that's why I love Dogsey.

xx

Totally agree, excellent post!

Just a small aside, do rescues actually do this, i.e. retain the microchip ownership ?

And is this list a true reflection of what most rescue centres require ? Seems like you'd be no more than a glorified fosterer with the rescue centre retaining ownership

Well as no more than a glorified fosterer to my lot, yes each of the rescues I have dogs from did most the above. Most rescues will retain microchip ownership, however microchip ownership proves just that – you own the chip not the dog, it also means if the dog is found the rescue is contacted and hopefully they are already aware that the dog is missing and can ensure the dog goes back to the right people. It’s a way of checking the dog hasn’t been moved on maybe breeders should also consider this

I also do non glorified fostering as well

How many breeders do pre home visits?
Not all breeders can, then again not all rescues do home visits either due to finance or manpower
How many do regular post home visits?
Not many breeders and not many rescues either
How many keep the microchips registered in their name?
Not many as some do not like to microchip 8 wk old puppies and some pups will go to the other side of the country so it is better the owner has it in their name. What happens if the breeder is away on holiday and the only contact is the breeder. If the owner looses their dog you can bet they'll be sitting by the phone waiting for it to ring. Trust me, been there. Rescues in the main will try and home dogs in a local area to themselves.How many breeders do you know that have taken a dog back because his/her care is not up to standard?
Again not many rescues have the resource to do constant post visits due to lack of manpower or funding.
How many ask for letters from landlord, councils etc?
How far do you grill someone?How many insist on seeing proof of receipt the new owner has paid for a course of training?
As I said in a previous post, once a puppy has been sold. The breeder has very little rights, even if they put things in a contract, legally the breeder doesn't have much of a leg to stand on
How many ask for proof the dog has been neutered or bred from?
How can you ask for proof when it's an 8 week old pup? How can you compare between a pup and a two year old rescue. Most rescues neuter the dog before rehoming, duh.What the breeder normally does is put endorsements on via the kc therefore stopping registration of any pups. It's the only thing that can be done.
How many would take the owner to court if the dogs was being bred from?
Legally again you don't have a leg to stand on if the dog was sold. And most of the rescues, certainly round here, won't rehome a dog until it has been nuetered anyway. They don't make the mistake of letting an entire dog or bitch go in the first place. Remember when a pup is placed with a new owner it it sold therefore it comes under one area of the law and the owner becomes the legal owner of the dog. When a dog goes from a rescue, a DONATION is paid, therefore it comes under another area of the law as legally the dog was not purchased, a donation was made.You make comparisons when comparisons cannot be made.



And my final thought for the day.
We have discussed rescues and dogs from breeders and I think there is a general concensus of it is the individuals decision where they get their dog from.
Breeders have been attacked by an individual on here and except for the puppy farms etc. they we all stand together in loathing, we also know that there are responsible breeders who work for many years, having very few litters, in helping maintain the breed (some from extinction) with integrity and honesty.
What ALLBREEDS fails to identify is that the ultimate responsiblity for the care and welfare of any dog lies with the individual who has it. Not just dogs but any animal.
As they said before dogs come into the rescue with various excuses from people. Is this the breeders fault? no. It is the fault of the owner as they did not think through the responsibiltiy of having a dog.
(Not to annoy anyone, I do realise that there are occasionally sad circumstances that an owner has to give up there dog)
In this world we live animals are open to abuse. It's sad we should all actively try and do something about it.
But attacking good breeders is not the answer. Again, it's getting the government to tighten up on the law and also for local authorities to tighten up too.
I'm sure we've all watched RSPCA programs etc, and see that an animal has to be in real distress before they can legally interevene.
Having an animal isn't just about feeding it and keeping it in a good state. It's about making their life full with love and companionship. They love us and ask for very little back at the end of the day.

Absolutely excellent post - and says all I don't have time to put into words right now.

How many breeders do pre home visits?-Some actually do, but most are very scrupulous (sp) in getting to know everything about you, your life and the life of a pup if it came to you.
How many do regular post home visits? Errr...the rescue center where i adopted our now deceased JRT from never did one!
How many keep the microchips registered in their name? Again, the rescue shelter we adopted from didnt.
How many breeders do you know that have taken a dog back because his/her care is not up to standard? A few actually!
How many ask for letters from landlord, councils etc? Can't see the particular rellevance
How many insist on seeing proof of receipt the new owner has paid for a course of training? Again, this seems like dictatorship and if this is the way of your rescue centre i would be put off by the sheer dictatorship it seems to hold.
How many ask for proof the dog has been neutered or bred from? In a different way-most breeders place endorsments.
How many would take the owner to court if the dogs was being bred from? Wouldn't have to go this far in most cases, most breeders place breeding endorsements (sp) on their pups-that maybe lifted when rellevant health tests are done etc-basically when the breeder is satisfied. If a pup isn't endorsed then..well, i don't have an answer for that!

To add onto your valid points LUKE, the problem with endoresements is that you only stop the pups from being registered by the kennel club. This is hoped to put people off as in the main pups with papers sell for more.
Unfortunately, legally again it doesn't stop people breeding from that dog. Fair play to the Kennel Club that they at least have endorsements. I did read a letter in the dog paper though that the breeder must have a signed copy of an agreement with the new owners signature on stating what endorsements had been put on and why. Otherwise if the breeder has nothing in writing as proof, the owner can get the KC to lift the endorsements, no matter what the breeder says.

Just as you research a reputable breeder so you should research a good rescue! Many do do homechecks and more and more are taking up the practise now

As above many more rescues are now doing this. Ive never know a breeder in my bred find out where the dogs went when rehomed.

Hopefully most rescues wont have to do this as they ensured a good home in the first place.


You cant? Surely breeders, as rescues do, ensure that if the home is not owned the landlord/council has given permission for a pet to be kept at the property!

So breeders can dicatate that puppies cant be bred from but rescues cannot dictate that if they think a pup needs to attend socialisation classes or training?

Again so many negative vibes against rescue!

The shelter we went too was a reputable one, I thankyou to know.
Breeder's can decide about the future of their pups, as they are their pups that they have carefully bred etc. Training classes are great-but not for everyone, can't recall any of our dogs ever going to one-they have been fine.

The vibes i give towards rescue aren't negative, the negative vibes i am giving are to people who are forcing rescue down people's throats and making them feel bad for not adopted a dog from a shelter, but going to a reputable breeder and purchasing a puppy! I've had rescues, pups from breeders, homebred pups etc-and would have all again, probably. My two last dogs I have obtained through breeders as I knew it would be easier to intergrate a pup into a house with already established animals-and I was right. For many years we (the family) worked closely with certain local rescues, fostering, fundraising etc-so don't tell me i am negative towards rescue animals at all!
I love rescue dogs, however I do not think one would suit my present circumstances.