If they don't get free run of the house, and some of the dogs are separated from each other, I do have to wonder just how much time her dogs are crated for... given she has 20, and there are only so many hours in the day to spend with them, I would imagine it is a fair amount of time.

I have a friend who has 8 dogs, they never all at the same time have free run of the house, some are in the kitchen)where she is most of the day) some in the laundry and some in the kennels outside, she rotates them round so each spends some time with her.

is that cruel too, do you think those dog suffer too.

You say you wonder how much time they have with her... that's just the point, one Rune made earlier...........you have to be there to judge!


P.S my dog never have free run of the house, and when they are small they are put in cages if I cant keep an eye on them.

So I guess you also think I am a bad owner too!

Hmmmm

Funnily I wouldn't make that judgement unless you gave an interview to the press and said the same sort of things that the Crufts winner did.

It is really very sad because a lot of people will take it as a given that Llasa's don't need walking.

rune

and my guess is that you frown on it ??

but surely the same applies? If it's all the dogs have ever known, why is it cruel?

It certainly is to me, but then again, I believe a dog should be allowed the chance to lead a proper life no matter what excuse is given for not doing so

Never to feel grass - what about dogs that are allergic to grass?

What about dogs that spend their whole lives as kennel dogs, never knowing the love & warmth of a home

I think its a fair point about what size is their garden, for all we know they might have an acre paved in.*

The one thing i *find disturbing in the general sense of dog ownership these days is, *how easily crates/ cages are incorporated into every day life. One *of the must have bits of equipment now when you accquire a puppy or dog is the crate / cage. They do have their uses i wont deny that but they can also be mis-used. Why is it seen as acceptable that its ok to 'cage' your pup/dog

Harvey had SA as a youngster & yes we did use one for him but for a limited amount of time, he was crate trained & crate weaned off it. It makes me cringe to hear of crates being bought & the dog or pup put in it immediately & door shut.*

Why.......

I certainly dont think its ideal no. I tend to find these types are less likely to cope well (in kennels for example) because of their small "world" and what they know of it. However, the same cannot be said for the Lhasa or any show dog really. They all go to ringcraft and are socialised, and of course as you can see are relaxed and comfortable with a large dog show, loads of people and dogs etc.. So they obviously have a better "life" than many pets.

My dogs prefer paving to grass if it's wet and they loathe mud. They would rather pee indoors than get their toes wet!!

I would imagine the dog in question is in tip top condition, you don't win with out of condition dogs.

Firstly, there is a big difference between 8 dogs, and 20 dogs...

Secondly, there is a difference between having free run of a certain section of a house/room and being confined to a crate.

And my post was directly responding to a post stating that she isn't crated all day while her owners are at work... Regardless of whether her owners are at work or not, her owner states she is crated.

Yes, you have to be there to judge, but it isn't difficult to make a good guess... There are only so many hours in the day... she definitely needs to sleep, and I would imagine has other things to do and places to go... and she has 20 dogs... It isn't difficult to work out that she can't feasibly spent a great deal of time with her dogs... especially one-to-one time.

Like I said, I think there is a difference between having free run of a certain area/room and being crated. I don't think there is anything wrong with crating young dogs... I crated Jake, and I think it is the safest way for them, but not for long periods or many short regular periods. I never said anything different, what I don't agree with is crating a dog because you fear something could happen to them, that could cause the end of your hobby.

Also, can you show me where I said anything about being a bad owner?

That is completely different though, if you need to keep a dog off grass because they are allergic, then you are doing it for the dogs benefit... and not for your own.

I don't agree with that either...

I understand that point... but, I still think a dog should experience new places to investigate... I'm sure the garden must get pretty boring after a while, regardless of how big it is... especially if it is bleached and scrubbed paving slabs...

I have a great walk next to my house to take Jake to, but I still take him to other places on a regular basis because I think he should experience new walks, and places to investigate... I don't walk around the park as much as I used to because I think it must be so boring for Jake, so I prefer to take him to a more 'wilder' walk.

In some situations crates can be brilliant... They can be used wrongly though, but most pieces of equipment can.

[QUOTE=lozzibear;2486505]Firstly, there is a big difference between 8 dogs, and 20 dogs...[ /quote]

Is there, your argument is that the owner does not give individual time to each dog, the number is irrelevant.

Where does it say that dog spends all its time in a crate, I read the dog goes in a crate, when she cant be watched, it also states the dogs have their own beds in the kitchen, so one would assume they also spend time in the heart of the home to.



But it does not state all day that's a presumption on your (and others part)



Your good guess is exactly that a guess, you have no idea what does or does not go on, mind it does not stop peoples imagination though


Surely if the owner is concerned for a dogs safety , it matters not the reason behind it.


So you don't think she is a bad owner?



Doesn't matter who's benefit its for, the results are the same a dog that cant go on grass, and seeing as its a big part of some people's argument, its not different at all.



That dog and many other show dog probably get more "new" places to investigate than most pet dogs

My dog has 3 places that she goes to for a walk, its those 3 places ALL THE TIME.... she is neither bored , nor do I feel I am depriving her.



Yes they can, but you don't know if this particular case is abuse or not, you just assume it is.

If a show dog spent all/most of its time inside a crate, it would not be in good physical condition, sort of defeats the object of showing it don't you think,

That cant happen if its locked in a crate all day.