Talking to a brick wall

When I first got together with Clive, his older brother and his wife had just got a staffie pup from the wifes brother.

When I first met them and was introduced to Alfie, I asked about his breeding etc., just out of interest, and was told that he wasn't KC registered, although the mother was, as she had a litter less than a year previously so he couldn't register them. Clive gave me warning eye gestures to not go there...he could see me about to open my mouth but I kept quiet.

Since then, they have also had a bitch from the brother, a repeat mating as Alfie, because the brother owns both the dog and the bitch. I can't moan about them as they adore these dogs, they are their babies, I just feel so cross that they have gone totally the wrong way about getting dogs.

From those first days of meeting my now brother-in-law and his wife, I have found out quite a bit about the breeder, he has never done a days work in his life, lives with his mum but rents his council flat out to someone else, and, apparently, is involved in a few dodgy dealings...if you get my drift

Over the last couple of months it transpires that Alfie is epileptic, poor little lad, and they have got him on tablets but he is still having mini seizures, as they call them. Clives brother was over this morning and we were chatting about Alfie, I asked him how he was and he told me that the vets aren't too concerned about him and that the epilepsy is only mild....thankfully I have no experience of it so don't know how correct this would be. Then he told me that they had mentioned it to his brother in law (the breeder), and he said, "oh **** does that aswell"...he's talking about the mother of all these pups

Clive took one look at my face and knew I was going to go into one...I asked him why on earth they would have something from someone that didn't health test..."oh they've got all their KC papers so they must be ok", was the reply And he's not really a puppy farmer as he doesn't do it for the money...he gives a lot of the pups away to friends.

I'm tearing my hair out trying to speak reasonably and without getting irate, how on earth can you educate people? Of course my BIL loves Alfie and his younger sister, thankfully Alfie will not go short of any medical treatment, nor will the sister if it transpires that she also has epilepsy. Both of the dogs have been neutered, such a shame the breeder hasn't done the same.

The bitch is apparently due in season any time now and the breeder is of the philosophy that if she has pups, she has pups...he has no way to seperate them when she is in season and has no money to get either of them neutered. I suggested maybe he got a job to finance it

I did apologise to my BIL and said I wasn't getting at him, but whilst he has had two pups off the breeder he is supporting him, had he not got homes for the pups maybe he would think twice next time!

I understand totally where you are coming from Sheree

Sounds like Alfie and his little sister will be the lucky ones, how many more epileptic dogs are going to produced from the epileptic mother? I have no experience of epilepsy but I know from reading posts on here that you have to be a dedicated owner to handle it. I wonder how many owners will give up on these poor dogs?

These sort of stories break my heart,O/H wanted to put Tyler out at stud again to approved bitches but I just haven't the heart to do it at the moment with so many in rescue's up and down the uk.

I just can't justify breeding from him,yes I do think he would produce some good quality puppies and I would love a pup from his lines but that's just totally selfish and do we really need any more SBT's been born,I don't think so.

Sheree maybe mention that it maynot be epilepsy but it may be a disease found in SBT's called L2 which there is no known cure,vets do sometimes assume it's epilepsy,maybe scare them and point they maybe liable as the breeder should be testing for these conditions.

more info on L2 http://www.staffords.co.uk/dddt.htm

Sheree I know how you must feel. Some people are so pig headed that I don't think you can educate them, they have their minds made up and in this age of 'human rights' no one is allowed to tell them otherwise, far less give them a slap across the jaw which is probably the only way they might learn something, it's a very sad reflection on our society and the education system.

I have been banging my head agains the wall for years re health testing.
I don't know hpw many times I have gon throught it with people wanting to breed and people wanting a pup.
They just shrug and do what they want anyway.

Thanks for all the replies...and thanks for the link Sal. Unfortunately I don't know if they will take any notice of me, but I will certainly try to tell them about it, that's all I can do really.

Clive understands about health testing etc because he listens to me spouting on but he admitted that he is only aware of things these days because of me...I suppose I have to accept that so many people don't really understand the nitty gritty of good breeding practices, and as the pups were given to them by a relative they assume they are getting something good.

Just such a shame that someone like this breeder continues to add to the already horrendous problem of the staffies and staff crosses that already exist.

Thanks again, I really needed to get this off my chest xx

my dad does this and it makes me sick, he goes to tialand for 4 months every year so i took his 3 dogs and got them spayed. he went mental and didnt speak to me for a while but i didnt care i knew ild done the right thing

ha ha nice one

What a shame Sheree.

I get very despondent when you meet people with new pups or young dogs and their first reaction is breeding I do put my thoughts across and then come away thinking they won't take a blind bit of notice of me so I am wasting my breath. At least though I feel I have done my bit.

This happened with a young GSD Ollie use to play with they were going on and on about breeding from her I spoke to them about hip scoring and taking puppies back if things went wrong and even adult dogs maybe. I knew it wasn't sinking in so I then spoke to the Aunt I use to walk with too.

It didn't get through they tried twice with her and with a male that I know hadn't been hip scored he was the GSD I wrote about a while back about him being tied to the fence near the woods and left I know for a fact he has had two different homes since then. Thankfully the young GSD didn't take kindly to being mated and so they gave up she also had a bit of an iffy temeprament as well.

What this proves Sherre, is that no amount of education will stop this sort of thing happening.

There will always be a percentage of people who breed this way, and I cant see it stopping.