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Brundog
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29-12-2007, 11:36 AM

Think your breed won't be affected?
Spencer, South Dakota banned Blue Heelers along with Doberman Pinschers, Rottweilers, "wolves" (which aren't a breed of dog), Staffordshire Bull Terriers
Smithfield, Utah labels as "vicious" and requiring a special permit: pit bull, Rottweiler, German shepherd, husky, Alaskan malamute, Doberman pinscher and wolf hybrid
Fairfield, Iowa restricts any dog weighing over 100 pounds and also has restrictions for: Rotties, Dobes, Huskys, Malamutes, GSDs, Malinois'
In Alberta, Canada Rhodesian Ridgebacks, Mastiffs and Rottweilers are prohibited.]
In Northern Ireland, 10 breeds of dogs are bannd: German Shepherds (Alsatians), American Pit Bull Terrier, Staffordshire Bull Terrier, English Pit Bull Terrier, Bull Mastiff, Doberman Pinscher, Rhodesian Ridgeback, Rottweiler, Akita, Japanese Tosa.
Italy has banned or restricted 92 breeds of dogs, including the Corgi.
Other breeds affected by BSL: mixed breeds, Akitas, Chows, Presa Canarios, Dogo Argentinos, Mastiffs, Filas, German Shepherds, Huskies, Malamutes

But, wait, aren't pit bulls statistically more likely to kill compared to their population size?

According to registries (UKC, AKC, ADBA), there are approximately 5 million pit bulls in the United States. The CDC study reported 60 fatalities attributed to "pit bull type dogs" - statistically, that is 0.0012% of the breed population (.000009% of the total dog population). Chows, according to the CDC report killed 12 people - statistically the fatality rate of Chows is .705% of the breed population.

Are there effective alternatives?

In Calgary, CA there is no breed ban. Instead of creating more laws, existing leash laws and licensing requirements were more stringently enforced. An effective education outreach campaign was initiated. Dog bites dropped 70% and the number of dogs licensed now stands at 90%. That's huge! As a comparison, most license rates are below 20% in the United States.
interesting reading ??!! taken from community forum so cant post as a link
KathyM
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dollyknockers
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29-12-2007, 11:40 AM
Many years ago my sister had half her face mauled in an unprovoked attack by a gsd , But no one said wipe them out , And my nephew was attack by 4 rotties when he walked outside his own back gate he ended up with 7 stiches to his arm he was 6 years old at the time Luckily his parents got to him before any more serious damage was done ,
He is now in his twentys but rotties are not a banned breed nor are they all condemed for the actions of a few irresponsibly owned dogs , Which are breed to fight and attack by morons ,I think these attacks are tragic yes but it is mostly due to the owners of the breeds ,If one man commits sexual offences should all men pay the price for his actions , no but when it comes to a specific breed ie pb or pb types they all have to suffer the death penalty due to irresponsible owners and iggnorance jmo xxdk
Trouble
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29-12-2007, 11:47 AM
Make all owners of all breeds of dogs liable for the dogs actions in the eyes of the law. Make the punishment fit the deed, IMO the breed is irrelevant. I have no problem being held accountable for my dogs actions and nor should anyone else, if they do then they shouldn't have a dog in the first place.
KathyM
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29-12-2007, 11:50 AM
My son was badly attacked by a dog, left with permanent facial scarring. That dog was a greyhound, and despite what he went through they're still one of his favourite dogs (and mine!).

Dharma, our Bullmastiff, was attacked in the park by a border collie x, she didn't retaliate, but did we get any sympathy? No, the owners let it come back and attack again, then were very vocal on their way out of the park about how dogs like Dharma shouldn't be allowed out in public (Dharma was onlead and didn't retaliate despite being bitten badly - all she did was scream in pain).

A long while ago I was a student VN and had never met a pit bull, so was quite ignorant and nervous when one came in to be admitted for a minor procedure. I was left with him and a little JRT bitch that had come in to be spayed. I was bitten that day - not by the pit bull (who was incidentally one of the softest dogs I've ever met), but by the 5 month old JRT tidger!
Callum
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29-12-2007, 12:36 PM
Originally Posted by KathyM View Post
Corr blimey - Malady I reckon you should offer your services to the police. Cos as far I I know (and as far as many folks on here have been telling you), it's not just purebred pitbulls they're after. The vast majority of dogs that are being IDed as "of pitbull type" are crossbreed dogs from what I've read. Some have been American Bulldogs. I've read that a pedigree labrador fits the DEFRA guidelines by up to 90% and a dog doesn't have to fit them 100% to be seized as "of type".

Still all covered by law. Legally if any dog fits the guidelines they *are* "of pitbull type". That's even with KC papers of parents proving they're not bred from purebred PBs.

They wouldn't give a monkeys about parentage, they've proved that already - some of the dogs seized this time round had papers saying they were pedigree staffies if I remember rightly? If you had a Boxer x Lab and you had the papers for each parent, it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference, that offspring (should it fit the measurements) *is* "of pitbull type". It's perfectly legal, as nuts as it is. It's a disgrace.
My point entirely! As some of you know I live in the darkest Highlands and collie's have shown more aggression and repeated incidents of aggression than any breed here. cos yes there are more of them but it isnt a rarity do I think all collie's should be banned, subject to DDA restrictions or wiped out, no.

Originally Posted by suze View Post
actually callum i think pure pits and crosses should be destroyed - (only the crosses if they can be proved they have pit in them)

if you have in your opnions - a boxer/lab that looks like a pit - it should be dna tested like the rest of them - io pure pits have a look, if it can be proved by an expert they can be destroyed

i think you should get over the fact i said if and my view if a small part of others opinions.....!!!!!!!!!
I refer to the above quote.. you'll be destroying a massive % of non pit dogs, family pets cos of how they look.

Originally Posted by Brundog View Post
ARRgg i wasnt going to get back into this. However....

First of all its abit unclear from the OP 's initial question as to whether we are talking about trying to get rid of Pits globally or just dealing with the supposed thosands that we still have in the UK.

If we are talking globally i think that its unbelievably pointless as have said many times, its the minority NOT the majority that are responsible for deaths and those instances that have occurred are down to the owners 99% of the time.

If we are talking about dealing with the UK pits then i still have problems. First of all like many have said because of the wide spectrum of "type" covered by the DDA, thousands of family dogs innocent pets etc would fall under the ban and would be seized for having done nothing at all.

I think that the people who own the culprit dogs ( ones that are left to roam) and fighting gangs should be severely punished, their dogs neutured and rehomed if possible otherwise PTS if proven to be unreliable.

It does anger me that many people on this thread who are supporting pitbulls to be globally wiped, dont own a bull breed and in a few cases clearly dont like them..so they are luckily never going to be affected by the DDA, so are acting as a case of touigh luck for the rest of us...

If I came on dogsey and slated golden retrievers, mals, NIs, jrt's etc etc saying they should all be wiped out for whatever reason i would be shot down.

To say that this isnt relevant is dangerous as ultimately if we accept that a law such as BSL can be implemented then ALL of our dogs are at risk,all it takes is a couple of dog attacks by another breed and you will get the media hype and a ban all over again with as different breed. After all the amount of puppy farmers BYB's and dodgy breeders that are chucking out very badly bred crosses and supposed breeds is going to lead to some very unreliable dogs in homes that dont know what they have let themselves in for.

For a dog lovers forum i am incredibly suprised by how many people think nothing of suggesting euthanising millions of potentially completely innocent dogs.

i question again if we were talking about collies how many of you would feel the same - after all the italian version of the DDA has collies listed on it - perhaps we should follow suit ??
Glad you got back in on this, excellent points.

Originally Posted by KathyM View Post
Many dog breed info sites say the same about many breeds - that they can be dog aggressive. One is the SBT - the only breed recommended by the KC as ideal for families. What does dog aggression have to do with attacks on humans? Are you suggesting that dogs can't tell us apart from dogs? Your ignorance is astounding.
Brilliant, Im still waiting for my Q regarding the "purpose" of the breed (PB) having anything to do with "human aggression"? as posted by borderdawn.

Originally Posted by suze View Post
you wanna know what - if the OP was saying to wipe out the entire pitbull breed.. i agree!!!!!

yes the dda dosent work - so wipe the whole soddin brreed out then!!!
True dog lover, lets not stop there. lets collect on sight every dog/type listed in global BSL and destroy them. Lets see whats left! ERM.... NO.

Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
Make all owners of all breeds of dogs liable for the dogs actions in the eyes of the law. Make the punishment fit the deed, IMO the breed is irrelevant. I have no problem being held accountable for my dogs actions and nor should anyone else, if they do then they shouldn't have a dog in the first place.
Exactly... DEED not BREED.


SUZE, the orig OP stated globally as the orig post was about the US not UK.

Malady same point as you mentioned that mutzzrule joined in on a UK related thread imo. It was a US related thread.

Im glad others have re iterated my point that you can have DNA or experts to ID PB all you like but it doesnt matter, cos that isnt the law the law regards the breed as irrelevant. now should the law change to actual PB and not type then I agree with correct breed ID. But really PB shouldnt be on the DDA in fact the DDA should be revoked and realistic OWNER legislation should be introduced and enforced. imo
Sal
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29-12-2007, 12:38 PM
Well,
I have been bitten by a Lab x,hubby by a collie,Luke badly attacked by a bullmastiff causing alot of damage,& Tom by a German Shepherd again needing hospital treatment.

Would I call for a ban on all these breeds because of the actions of a few dogs....Nope!

I don't think that's the answer,in the last 12 months, three children have been killed by dogs,a baby by a rottie,a young girl by a pitbull and again yesterday a toddler by a rottie.
Now wasn't the DDA supposed to protect children & the public from these attacks,I would be interested to know how many attacks we have seen by various breeds since the introduction of the DDA compared to those before the ineffictive legislation became law.
KathyM
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29-12-2007, 12:45 PM
I think the sad fact is that there are dog owners out there who will not stand up and be counted because it is not their breed at risk (currently!). What's even sadder is that if it ever comes to their breed being banned, those of us who did stand up will continue to do so for their dogs too. It's sad because those people will stand and watch our dogs get put down for no reason other than looks (and some extremists will vocally support the dog equivalent of ethnic cleansing, like suze), but when it comes to the time when their breed is threatened, only then will they see the light.
Katie23
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29-12-2007, 12:46 PM
there are many people that have been badly bitten by labs/collies/jrt's etc etc - but they are not to the extent and have the breeding like pit bulls do

at the end of the day - you aint gonna change the law regarding them - and if the gov said tomorow destroy them and their PROVEN crosses - id back them all the way

imo now i think sadly for al you staffy people they are tarred with the same brush which is wrong....i know - i dont agree with it - i dont like the breed but still...

callum i am a dog lover - if i saw an injured dog in the street, id still help them even if it was a pitbull - really - i wouldnt see any harm - id report it though
mo
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29-12-2007, 12:47 PM
I just havent read every post so applogise if what I am saying has already been said, IMO I am totally against the banning of any breed and IMO the dog that has done the damage should be destroyed not all of that breed, sadly what the problem today is some breeds that are considered "hard" are being kept by the wrong people, if there were no PB types other types would be used by this section of people and then we would have another breed that will become banned so on and so on, as for the ban on PB types these can and do get mixed up with other breeds ie badly bred as far as breed standard but a good dog in every aspect staffy, the link dipicting the different breeds that can be mistaken for PB I had personally shown to a few dogwardens and guess what they could not pick out the PB? now then these are people that have to KNOW their breeds pretty well yet they too can get it wrong. I dont know what the answer is to the growing problem, but as we know the ban is not working, I see more PB types around now than I did in 91 and without exception the ones I have seen have been on the other end of a lead held by a 17+ odd year old male, one such person when I approached him to "chat" about his dog proudly said that yeah its a pB they are banned you know, yet here he was with a dog (that I might admit was actually snarling at another dog tied up outside a shop) that was entire, I mentioned the neutering of this breed to which he answered no way am I having his nuts chopped off we're gonna get some money from his pups. sorry for rambling here I just cant see how we are going to change things. unless it becomes a law to lobotomise all human morons over the age of 17

Mo
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