Yes, it is so easy for the editing to give a totally different picture. I remember the yellow lab and the shock collar too, that was the worst and most blatant bit of editing ever... and showed me just how low promoters will stoop to pretend their wares are fine. Even when they are lying and happy to do so.

Yet people were still allowing themselves to be taken in.

Wys
x

afraid this guy was too ignorant of dog communication to edit out anything - he thinks his dog is OK
Poor thing is stressed all tru the 'training' but it is very telling (imo) how much more stressed she is when he sticks the prong collar on - the whole time it is on she is licking her nose
So right from the dogs mouth - prongs are worse than choke chains (and they should be banned anyways


In comparison here is how dogs can look if they learn heel without punishments

God you could see a mile away that first dog knew the difference between the prong collar and the normal leash!

I think anything that inflicts pain on a dog should be banned. Personally I cannot understand why anyone would want to cause pain to a dog be it for training or any other reason

if you need a prong collar, you dont need a dog.you do not have what it takes....simple

Yip!! Good to see u back 3 dog

thank you, nice to be back.i have used them all at one point..chock, shock and prong...muzzles too.iv got my opinions as we all do.im not a fan of them but sometimes they were a tool to correct a dog and done with..never to be used agian...example..one dog would not stop bitting the neck of a smaller dog while he was at the back of the property,so zaped him along with my voice he stopped and never did it agian,nor did i..i look for other ways...chocker collar one of my guys passes out...i never did it agian.

Ditto to this, really. Hate prong collars, shock collars, choke chains and, quite frankly, I don't really like 'normal' collars either. I just don't like the thought of pulling at my dogs neck and throat. Which is why Whisper has a comfortable, fully fleece lined Perfect Fit harness. Which really confused me when I read that harnesses have been compared to prongs on this thread?! I know which I'd prefer to wear if I had a choice!

When people use a prong collar in training then you have to differ what for and how.. If people use it to show who is boss and try to make a dog `comply` and inflict pain for this very reason then I agree, they should not be allowed to do so,because they do not know what they are doing, these kind of people are already a pain in dogs **** even without any equipment. I do not advocate pain and compulsive training , though it is a fact that some form of compulsion/avoidance in learning processes is just needed.
These learning principals apply to animals and humans. If every thing in the world would be perceived as good nobody would know what actually `good` is because there is nothing `bad` in existence to compare. Withholding something the dog desires is also a form of compulsion, but sometimes not sufficient to get a learning effect. Compulsion should be used to guide the trainee rather than to punish the trainee for the mistakes the teacher made in the first place.
We are all conditioned in basically the same way, Humans and dogs. We avoid what`s not good for us and we desire what we think does us good. If you are unable do distinct between good and bad you are not going anywhere!
We have created the dogs by domesticating wolves , so now we have to live with it and have to accept the facts and try to learn more about the creatures we have designed.
The actual point of this discussion should be` how much inconvenience/pain or compulsion, name it, is actually needed and can be justified in a learning process`
I use just as little compulsion as possible in my training, just enough to keep my dogs wanting to do things, which is in their very interest and I get from the dog what I want, I call this Harmony, you could also say it is some kind of Symbiosis.
All the best
Ulf

here is a video, showing myself training one of my dogs.

http://vimeo.com/29251193

whilst you give some good ideas ulf, your train of thought is also one that e collar trainers express.
so what is the difference?