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Location: God's Own County
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 7,584
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Originally Posted by
mjfromga
Okay, here we go. "Debunked" is a relative word. It does not mean every single aspect of something isn't true.................
You probably attribute dogs not getting along to the owners and their failures etc. but it isn't so cut and dry. Violence is part of the dog world and we as owners simply endeavour to train (domesticate) our pets so this side never shows it's face. Doesn't always work as even a well trained dog sometimes can act out of character. It's you know... part of being an animal............................................ . And Alan Titchmarsh certainly seemed arrogant, as well.
.................................. And sorry I do not agree that a pack is a bitch, the male and the puppies they gave birth to. Do not agree with that at all. If that was the case, very little aggression of course would be seen as rarely is there severe aggression among litter mates etc.
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He's a failure because he cannot properly imitate what dogs do and it was absurd to even try, but he is not a failure because he is arrogant or wrong about everything. Some of the stuff he says isn't just total crap, but then that is my belief. You are allowed to have yours.
A pack animal when describing a wolves(which is what CM & his acolytes base their beliefs on)is to quote the OED(Oxford English Dictionary)"An animal that lives and hunts in a pack"
The pack does not consist of unrelated wolves(except the breeding pair), it is the breeding pair + their offspring from various annual litters, so when comparing dogs to wolves there are few true "packs" merely groups of dogs that may or may not be related. Even hunting "packs" consist of parents & offspring of more than one breeding pair & TBH they do not act as a hunting pack the same way wolves do, they are preselected by man.
I have 8 dogs, 2 pairs of closely related dog &bitch(full brother + sister & half brother & sister)the others are not related at all(one is a totally different breed)are they a pack-nope, they do not act as a cohesive group as a true pack does.
As for Alan Titchmarsh being arrogant-lolol-nothing could be further from the truth, however he was well armed with facts & questions for CM, who being the arrogant misanthrope he is & who like the typical "Alpha" he believes himself to be, thought his "status" from the USA would give him an easy ride. He has never been so wrong. Alan Titchmarsh is a typical straight talking Yorkshireman, to calls a spade a bl**ding shovel.
Actually CM is the typical stereotype "American" man(as in the Americas North & South)he is the leader & he is right. He knows more than anyone else(especially non Americans), does things better than non Americans etc etc
Dr. Dave Mech of the University of Minnesota, who has studied wolves in their natural habitat, claims that much of what is widely believed about wolf packs is mistaken. From observations of wolf packs on Ellesmere Island over more than a decade, he claims that natural wolf packs are not at all similar to those formed in captivity by unrelated wolves. He attributes many of the misconceptions about wolf packs to generalizations from these unnatural packs in captivity, and equates this to erroneous inferences we might draw from generalizing human behaviour from studying refugee camps.
Dr. Mech argues that the natural wolf pack is typically a family, with a breeding pair of adult wolves and their offspring, along with a few other relatives such as uncles and aunts. In such cases, the terms "alpha" and "dominant" are less appropriate than "parent." Of course, the parent wolves are both "alpha" and "dominant" (by definition), but he argues that these terms are misleading because they imply that a pack of wolves typically include multiple families and that the members assume a place in a linear hierarchy. A wolf pack should not be seen as a tribe of individuals who have an established place in a hierarchy until a younger dog usurps the role. Rather, a wolf pack should be seen as a family unit, with young wolves of age dispersing into new territories of their own, to find other wolves and begin their own family units.
Mech also states that dominance is rare in wild wolves, and does not arise from sexual competition. Because young wolves usually disperse before age two, and almost always before age three, there is little sexual tension within a pack. Instead of "dominance" and "submission," he uses the terms "assertiveness" and "passiveness" to reflect the role of the wolf in the pack. Dominant breeding pairs led the pack most of the time (71%), and initiated most new behaviours (70%). Leadership behaviour in subordinate pack members tended to be followed by dispersion
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