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Location: UK
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09-02-2011, 05:33 PM
Originally Posted by Kerriebaby 
I agree totally.
the thought of using one on a 6mth old pup..
Adam, how would YOU teach a nice heel WITHOUT a pinch collar, and under what circumstances would YOU use one on YOUR own pet?
Re own dogs, very rarely on lead so have never used one. Besides they walk to heel on or off fine anyway.
Adam
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Location: UK
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,497
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09-02-2011, 05:35 PM
Originally Posted by Tassle
My concern was the damage being done - if the dog is not responding to the prongs - you would want to release the pressure - how would you do this if the dog was pulling?
The turn makes the dog follow you which releases the pressure (neg reward) and the pop and release inhibits the dogs forward momentum and also releases the pressure (neg reward) I would then praise/feed/squeak toy ect.
Adam
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Location: West of Scotland
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 8,034
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09-02-2011, 05:36 PM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer
If the dog is pulling agaianst the prong the prong itself is not a strong enough correction, e;g the pressurte pulling on it creates. So you would apply a stronger correction.
Most people intro prongs by having the dog on a 6' lead and doing several sharp about turns (think Mic martin on dog borstal) This is a very effective way of teaching the dog to keep a loose lead and follow you.
You can also use prongs with the standard pop and release lead correction, this also works fine.
Adam
It amazes - and scares me - how you don't seem to be able to realise that this is downright cruelty!
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Location: UK
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,497
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Location: West of Scotland
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 8,034
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09-02-2011, 05:45 PM
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Location: West Sussex UK
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,044
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09-02-2011, 05:47 PM
I am also extremely sad at the thought that someone puts them on a 6 month old puppy ~ absolutely hideous ~ but from someone who purports to be an "expert" in training by the use of harsh & painful punishment, I shouldn't really be suprised
And Adam ~ both the examples you gave could just as easily been taught using kind & positive methods rather than by torture. And what about looking at the underlying picture from the dog's point of view. You clearly only see "tip of the ice berg" behaviours that are inconvenient to the owners & obviously don't give a jot about the dog itself ~ and don't bother putting out that lame old excuse that the dog may have been pts if it hadn't had to learn to suppress itself because of being subjected to such cruelty ~ it doesn't wash & you have absolutely no facts or evidence to back it up.
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Location: UK
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 5,551
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09-02-2011, 05:48 PM
Originally Posted by Azz
That's disgusting - and I would consider it dog abuse.
This single post has pretty much convinced me they should be added to the partial ban, btw.
It is total abuse, but for some godforsaken reason, gets called "dog training"
Wys
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Location: UK
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 5,551
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09-02-2011, 05:51 PM
Originally Posted by sarah1983
....
. The traditionally trained ones were offering a lot of calming signals, hesitant at trying new things, and just didn't seem anywhere near as happy while working. And this was far from a harsh class as classes go.
.Wys
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