As prong collars are basically used for things that are trainable without compulsion to that degree, why would you think they are acceptable?

I would also echo KWs question in that the self-same argument is often used by advocates of the e-collar so it would be interesting to hear your views on how you think they differ - or maybe you don't??

Can i ask what compulsion you use? How are you showing them what is bad?

I watched a bit of your video. I have to admit at the start she seemed pretty stressed and unmotivated I wondered
But after that when you are rewarding with the tuggy so becomes such a brighter animated dog, that made me smile

Can I ask do you correct your dog with the lead?

Krusewalker, the difference is I do not chase electricity through dog`s body and the advocates of the e-collar using these learning principals as exuse to justify
Ben, this dog in the video is always highly motivated, does always want to do the things right and if she does not get the things right because her drive is in the way then I use mild corrections to guide the dog in the right direction which always comes along with some `learning stress`` not different to human learning.
All the best
Ulf

Couldn't you achieve the same by working with the drive, ie slowing down when the drive gets too enthusiastic and speeding up when the drive needs to be put in gear?

Learning stress occurs naturally through the environment. My personal belief is that it is unfair for us to deliberately add to that stress by using punitive means to train

I have only tried to make people think a little more, but the result seems to be I am considered to be a dog abuser or something, really pathetic.So I will not comment on that any more, instead I welcome any of you to watch my training any time and then we can talk, how`s that?
All the best
Ulf

That is not the question that i asked.
But this post gives another example for why i asked the question.

You could interchange the sentence "i do not chase electricity though a dog's body" with "i do not chase pain through a dog's body"

Do you remember the E collar trainer Adam on here?
You said he made your toes curl and that e collar trained dogs look suppressed.
The rationale you gave earlier for prong collars are the same rationale that adam gave for e collars.

So my question still stands - what is the difference?

And i have seen your training

I don't see anywhere where anyone has branded you a dog abuser. I did give my own personal views and if my views cause you offence, there really is little I can do to address that.

I would have thought that asking whether you could work with the drives rather than by suppressing with a prong collar a reasonable one considering the subject of both the thread and your posts?

I dont see anywhere anyone making you out to be a dog abuser, just asking questions

As for making us think a little. Do you not think we have? It used to be pretty comon place to train with pain
I myself in the past have used a choke chain, and I hated every min of it. When I got my dogs and found out you could train without pain I was very glad

I simply asked what methods you use? You have dodged the question

I guess that you may not be reading this thread just now, but if you are can I ask
Do you not see a difference in your dog in the start of the clip and in the middle of the clip? and again - Do you use your leash for corrections?

Yes and there is no argument on that all prong collars or other collars that inflict pain do should be banned. As all they do are make the dog scared of you and in extreme cases severely injure dogs.

Short, concise and to the point. Well said.