for goodness sake - can't we just drop it now? it's getting tired. people have offered to let it go - and agree to disagree.

you are NOT going to change anyone's minds on the matter - so is there any point in constantly pushing opinions down others throats?

xx

Sorry but I think rescues should also be given the right to decide the future of the dogs they have cared for, assessed and nursed back to health just as much as a breeder!

i don't think luke said otherwise tbh spot... but breeders have just as much right - or do you not agree? those who breed are bringing more unwanted animals into the world, and as a result have no right to care about those animals?

xx

Read the post I said rescues should also have the right!

A reputable breeder shouldnt be bringing in any unwanted animals - they should already have homes lined up for the litter before breeding.

SPOT.
I think it is clear on here that noone is having a go on rescues. If or when I get one from a home, they can do whatever checks they want to do. I have nothing to hide.
The question that was originally put "How many would take the owner to court if the dogs was being bred from" was a confusing one as in the main rescues neuter the dogs before they are rehomed or in the agreement the dog is to be neutered in a short amount of time ie, 3 months and proof given to the rescue. I don't know of any rescue that just let's an entire dog/bitch go with just an agreement not to breed from it. But then again I don't know every rescue ni the country, only of the national ones and their terms.
I think this was the point Luke was trying to make. In terms of training, I have friends that put this in the contracts of their puppies and if rescues want to do that then that's fine. Two of the ones in my area run their own training that you sign up which I think is good, however I realise not all can do this. Sometimes though, training classes is hard, there might not be one in the area. The new owner might not drive and can't get to one in the next town etc. etc. I think most rescues will look at personal circumstances. They are at the end of the day trying to place the dog in a loving home and are not going to withhold someone cos they can't get to a training class.
Dogs that need that special training alot of the time will get it at the home before they are rehomed or homed with someone who knows what they are doing.
I totally respect rescues and think they do a wonderful job. They do what they can on the manpower and monies available.
I think the debate between breeder pups and rescue dogs was a silly one to start with and could be an endless one.
As someone said pages back, we live in a country where we have freedom of choice and that's the end to it. Whatever individually we choose to do about rescue homes, whether we have a dog from one, put some money in donation pot for them, or be a volunteer. That's up to you and only you.
As for honourable breeders, there is a place for them as without them alot of our much loved breeds would die out or change beyond recognition.

oh for heavens sake stop twisiting my words!!! I said that that was what you seemed to be implying - ALL reputable breeders have homes lined up before pups are even concieved. I was simply saying that you seem to be implying throughout the thread that there is no such thing as a reputable breeder.

i'm thoroughly sick of this now actually - so I'm not plannign to read it any more - you make me so angry!!! pushing your opinions down everyone elses throat! It only ever seems to be rescues who are 'holier than thou' and insist that they are always right on every matter 'because they are a rescue'.

sorry if this upsets anyone - I know full well that it's not all rescues, and most are pretty sound and do their best to work with breeders for the animal's sake - those that don't - well, you don't deserve our bile quite frankly.

have fun bickering.

xx

Can you point out where Ive said there are no reputable breeders please?

Guys.
Remember that just because a post is below yours it might have been a reply to someone else not naturally yours.
SPOT/ZOUNDZ breath. You see to be on the same side.
SPOT, I agree with you that wherever you can have owners ready for a litter. The difficulty lies that until the pups are born you don't know how many pups you'll have and how many will survive. Most reputable breeders generally though have a waiting list anyway because of their reputation.
Lets not fall out on comments made by one individual who started all this. I think we all know where we stand.
Now before this thread becomes the longest in history, I say goodbye and I'm going to take my beloved dogs out for a nice walk while the sun is in the sky.
Ta Ta fellow dog lovers where ever you may be :smt040

I have a question, mainly to Allbreeds and Spot...

How do you feel about rescues that have no spay and neuter policy? Neither of my two rescues were spayed, both of which were bitches, one of which came from a terrible background (they have now been spayed paid for by myself) both of them came from seperate rescues neither of which had no such policy dogs and bitches can walk out of both rescues the same day intact! (Unless it's otherwise stated within their history records that they have either been spayed or neutered by their previous owners) does this also not add to the rescue problem?
I went back to the same one I had one of my girls from when concidering another dog quite a few months ago, when looking around the kennels at dogs I may have been intrested in I came across a couple specificly looking for an INTACT male Stafford whom they could use to serve the bitch they had at home quite possibly which could have well resulted by now in another unwanted litter that could well of ended up back in the same rescue facility. Infact I know people walk round both rescues everyday, purposely looking for dogs that they can take litters from!

So it is also fair to say, that some rescues also add to the unwanted dog population by re-homing dogs with no spay and neuter contracts in place? In my eyes these sorts of places are not much better than puppy farms...well no actually these places are worse than puppy farms because they re-home dogs that have been cast aside for whatever reason, poor bitches which could go onto being bred season in season out twice yearly which results in litters of pups from dogs which have had not the nicest of starts in life in the first place!

Obviously I cannot answer for Allbreeds. As Ive said already anyone getting a dog from a breeder or rescue or if you would prefet them to puppy farm, they should be doing their research first! There are reputable breeder, bad breeders and puppy farmers. There are excellent rescues, poor rescues and those posing as rescues, local pounds who may have to pts dogs if they are over run.

Bad so called rescues can be adding to the problem I cant see where anyone has denied this and many reputable rescues are trying to do something about them. But to support puppy farming as the lesser evil of the 2 or to say rescues are assisting puppy farmers is not something I can agree with.