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Dibbythedog
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22-02-2015, 10:00 AM
Originally Posted by Strangechilde View Post

I'm not recommending this kind of intervention- it is dangerous, but if you cultivate confidence and command in yourself, you may be able to pull off a similar trick. Not that it's a trick-- it isn't, but, you know.
I think from experience you get to know which are scraps and which are more serious attacks .
I know where you are coming from about not intervening incase you get hurt and its standard advice but my reflex actions kick in .
The attacks where a dog runs straight up and attacks my dogs and one dog repeatedly attacked them , I just wade in . I'm not strong and have Rheumatoid Arthritis but fear gives your stength I have grabbed dogs collars , whacked one with my treat bag. I have been very lucky , the breeds have been GSD JRts beligian shepherd , airedale , BCs . Dibby had toothmarls in his neck but the other two havent been wounded yet but they have been bruised .
Perhaps if I had bigger dogs I wouldnt intervene but I cant take chances with small dogs. I would rather be hurt than have my dogs hurt .
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Strangechilde
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22-02-2015, 01:10 PM
@Gnasher: Sorry, Gnasher! I know you weren't being negative there. I've certainly seen the hysterical flapping and wow, you're so right. It so does not help. Thank you for the compliment!

Personally, I love Staffies. Habibi is a Staffie mix, though mixed with what, we don't know-- Basenji, we think, but whatever! They are a much maligned breed, vastly underappreciated for their many virtues, and so badly misused by people who want tough dogs on chains to make them look hard. The shelters near where I live are full of them.

@Dibby: Yes, you're right, you do develop a feel for what's play and what's more serious. You learn to read facial expressions and body language, and you know your own dog. I know that Berkeley does not scrap, ever. And yes, you're right: your instincts do kick in. I don't think it matters what size the dog is-- of course a little dog is more at risk in an altercation with a big one, but if it's your big dog whose throat has been targeted, you're probably going to just wade in there, as you said. So it is wise to condition yourself to behave appropriately.

Thinking about it, having dogs has been one of the most affirmative, positive, strengthening things I've ever done *for myself*. I've had to become stronger and more assertive, for them. I am deeply indebted to them!
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Myrsky<3
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23-02-2015, 07:12 AM
Good Monday morning everyone !
I like reading your posts, and I hope one day I will be experienced as you guys We had a good weekend with Myrsky, he was biting less (Its because my Partner didn't leave) this morning it was as usual, he is really upset at my BF when he is going to leave....We have been to a fenced off leash area in the forest near by, Myrsky liked it and he met a lot of dogs and People too.
One issue we have is still that he is confronting my Boyfriend sometimes and is not obedient somehow.When I want to put the leash on he bites it and pulls on it and when I tell him to leave it (in what he is actually good at with other stuff) he starts snarling and wants kind of challenging/mess with me. I could get rid of that behaviour with a bit of training I guess, but Im wondering why he does it. Because he doesn't like the leash?!? Normally during walk he is fine with. Maybe Im wrong but I think he doesn't like to be guided, because it will give him less freedom and makes me the leader?! He was btw.the biggest pup in the litter.
@gnasher did you get your Ben(?!)when he was a pup?! How was his behaviour, he tested his boundaries the same?!My BF was reading a lot about malamute training, and he said if he is not making any progress in the next weeks for the biting he will start to give him a little tap on his nose (just when it was a very bad bite) because he said it can be dangerous with such a big dog. I understand his point and I see how Myrsky is acting and biting sometimes, which is not acceptable. But my Bf is trying very hard. And I cant help him (Myrsky is never confronting me, only with the leash biting) I should not intervene their "business" right? I mean Myrsky has to learn with my Partner, isn't it?
Ok,.. enough now
Enjoy your day !
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Myrsky<3
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23-02-2015, 07:20 AM
Oh and Dibby what you wrote about intervene a "fight". Yes when Myrsky got attacked I didn't think about ME getting hurt, I also rather prefer me getting hurt than him. But I'm still not experienced, so I should be careful (But the dog wore a muzzle so it wasn't dangerous).. hopefully it won't happen again. Or the other way round my dog will never attack or seriously harm another dog....*worstnightmare*
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Gnasher
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23-02-2015, 08:37 AM
Originally Posted by Myrsky<3 View Post
Good Monday morning everyone !
I like reading your posts, and I hope one day I will be experienced as you guys We had a good weekend with Myrsky, he was biting less (Its because my Partner didn't leave) this morning it was as usual, he is really upset at my BF when he is going to leave....We have been to a fenced off leash area in the forest near by, Myrsky liked it and he met a lot of dogs and People too.
One issue we have is still that he is confronting my Boyfriend sometimes and is not obedient somehow.When I want to put the leash on he bites it and pulls on it and when I tell him to leave it (in what he is actually good at with other stuff) he starts snarling and wants kind of challenging/mess with me. I could get rid of that behaviour with a bit of training I guess, but Im wondering why he does it. Because he doesn't like the leash?!? Normally during walk he is fine with. Maybe Im wrong but I think he doesn't like to be guided, because it will give him less freedom and makes me the leader?! He was btw.the biggest pup in the litter.
@gnasher did you get your Ben(?!)when he was a pup?! How was his behaviour, he tested his boundaries the same?!My BF was reading a lot about malamute training, and he said if he is not making any progress in the next weeks for the biting he will start to give him a little tap on his nose (just when it was a very bad bite) because he said it can be dangerous with such a big dog. I understand his point and I see how Myrsky is acting and biting sometimes, which is not acceptable. But my Bf is trying very hard. And I cant help him (Myrsky is never confronting me, only with the leash biting) I should not intervene their "business" right? I mean Myrsky has to learn with my Partner, isn't it?
Ok,.. enough now
Enjoy your day !
It does sound as if he really likes your boyfriend ... a case of "you only hurt the one you love!" That may be humanising Myrsky too much.

The lead tugging and the snarling when you are trying to put the lead on him is pretty normal puppy play ... he is testing the boundaries, seeing how far he can go with you. Probably the best thing is to stay calm, no raised voice, but firmly say No! Or make a noise like Oi or Ah! and remove the lead from his mouth gently but firmly. Tell him to sit, and then start again putting the lead on him. He does not mean to hurt you, he is playing but also testing the boundaries as well. It is not a case that he does not like the lead ... he is just being a normal boisterous puppy, and he needs to be gently corrected and guided.

No, we did not have Ben as a pup sadly. We did not have him until he was 5 or 6 and a lot of damage had been done to him. He had been very badly treated in one home, and then others allowed to get away with murder. His last but one home was the best, but the bitch rottweiler did not like him and kept seriously attacking him, so Ben had to be rehomed.

I personally would not tap Myrsky even very gently on the nose ... much better would be a stiff, erect finger held up close in front of his nose, and with a stern look and a sharp "No!" correct him. Keep your finger beside his mouth until he stops mouthing you ... each time he mouths, say No! or make a sharp noise of your choice. You could give him a gentle nudge if he persists, but personally I would not tap. Claim the space around Myrsky with a dominant body posture ... standing tall with your bottom tucked in and your hips forward is a good authoratitive position to hold.

This play biting is all perfectly normal ... all young pups do it to each other, and will continue to do it with their humans. They just need to learn that it can hurt and they mustn't do it. Having said that, Mals and Siberians are very mouthy ... Ben will often gently take my hand in his mouth, in play, and sometimes will nip my bottom, which is extremely painful!! It is a love bite, but I gently tell him No because it hurts and I would not want him to do this to anyone else of course.

You, as pack leader, set the rules and boundaries ... Myrsky is a highly intelligent dog and an extremely quick learner. You just need to be gentle, kind and consistent, whilst at the same time being assertive in your body language, posture and voice. Northern/spitz breeds respond extremely well to pack rules and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Actually, IMO ALL dogs do, but that is a bit of an inflammatory remark!

With Myrsky you need to be pack leader ... as a consequence, he won't feel he has to be, he will sit back and allow you to take all the flak and to lead the pack! He will feel safe and secure and you will have a wonderful wonderful dog.

You are both doing so well ... any chance of any pictures of Myrsky?
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mjfromga
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23-02-2015, 08:51 AM
My Nigredo would badly chew all his leads. I simply switched to a chain lead. He sure as heck had no interest in chewing a chain. Solved the problem without a word spoken. As for loose leash walking, a 3 foot "control" lead helped him learn to stay close.

Then on a normal lead, he was already tuned to some degree and I just stopped walking when he'd pull and that was that. He learned that pulling means we go no where, and staying near gets praise (but no food) and we keep walking.

The mouthing I never tolerated. Puppy was removed with a "no" each time he mouthed, and put in time out. He was either crated in another room, or leashed to a chair across the room when he'd get mouthy, didn't take long for him to stop.

As long as Myrsky is socialized well, I doubt he'll turn vicious. My last dog unfortunately got into several fights, all inflicting severe injury to one or both fighters, I've seen even worse fights on the streets, not a pleasant thing to have a dog that fights to the death, even if he's not the one starting the fights.

Most vicious dogs are unaltered and male (bite statistics) and though I'm not a huge neuter fan, I think certain breeds such as those prone to DA and same sex aggression really should be altered.
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Myrsky<3
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23-02-2015, 09:21 AM
Thank you both of you.
@gnasher, yes we do so with the "No" and Finger and put him to sit, he stops after a while. Then my BF has another try and Myrsky is licking his hands instead (means sorry maybe)But he "forget" so quickly and will do again. And I don't want the tap method either.. rather a time out, we do in extreme case as I wrote here.Body Language helps too. In leash biting situations I tell him sit and firmly "no" and "leave it" and if he doesn't let go I just look away to the door like,.. "ok it will just take even more time until we can get out" But isn't it like I gave up?! -.- I should try like you said.
@mjfromga, I do the same for pulling, just stop and wait until he stops (takes a while, when he really wants to get to some-one/thing) and I think I need better/more treats too for recall or getting his attention. He is so focussed and likes to "watch" for an eternity his surroundings But he is making good progress on the lead, better to get away from people and sometimes after dog meeting too I will try to post a picture of us..
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Myrsky<3
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23-02-2015, 09:38 AM
Oh and it works with a picture?!
thats him (one week ago, he's bigger now)
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Myrsky<3
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Dibbythedog
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23-02-2015, 10:29 AM
Oh my goodness. he is gorgeous. I'm completely smitten.

When I want to put the leash on he bites it and pulls on it and when I tell him to leave it (in what he is actually good at with other stuff) he starts snarling and wants kind of challenging/mess with me. I could get rid of that behaviour with a bit of training I guess, but Im wondering why he does it. Because he doesn't like the leash?!?
This is pretty normal . Libby chi does something similar .
When you hold the leash , it means something very exciting is going to happen , Walkies! and for pups its very hard for them to contain that excitement so he is directing it to the leash .
I do a sign , tap my neck and say collar. You could hide the lead behind your back and gently hold his collar or harness before you attempt to attach the lead. asking for a sit is good and as you found sometimes just waiting for good behaviour is effective.

I really would advise your boyfriend not to tap his nose . Theres a huge difference between gently grasping his muzzle and tapping his nose no matter how gently you do it .
he could learn to snap back or become hand shy .
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