You know what nick - before I moved to a country where marble tiled floors are the norm - I used to get static shock from door handles and all sorts in my house (probly due to nylon content in carpet I dunno) but even THAT can hurt you! Occasionally I'd get a 'shock' on getting out of the car if holding onto the top of the door and THAT HURTS too! If it didn't I wouldn't even bluddy remember it!

And I've got an electronic zapper for mozzie bites. You zap the bite and it stops itching but it BLERDY HURTS when you do it! And I've also got two of the 'original' ZAP BATS for flies and the like and BOY you should feel that if you try it on yourself. My youngest son was daft enough to touch it to his nose lol! My eldest was daft enough to whack his OH on the bum with it (she has a replacement heart valve) thought we were going to have to take her to hospital! And they don't come with very strong warnings. Available in any Maplins for anyone to buy.

Hit a FLY with it and it drops dead. Hit anything bigger like a huge wasp and watch it FRY complete with burning smell and smoke. Ditto for huge moths or whatever. Don't tell me electric shocks don't HURT. They do. But at least Gnasher has stopped calling them 'stims' or 'buzzes'

Wow, really? i've heard it all now Your dogs/wolves whatever you want to call them are not more intelligent than other breeds, they do not have some super power that makes them able to read your mind..........Incidentally, have you ever seen the video of the Border Collie that knows the names of all her toys and will pick up the one she's been asked to get out of a pile? Same dog can be shown a photo of a particular toy too and go and pick it out.

If Ben has 100% recall, how come you couldn't stop him from running up to your neighbours dogs? And on the subject of that, you said he is fine if dogs are calm (your reason for wanting to use the "aggressive" black lab in the village to stop his DA) so why did he jump your fence and attack your neighbours lab when he couldn't even see him?

Same question occurs to me too. But although I admire Gnasher's ability to debate she lost the argument big time for me when she started calling these electric shocks 'stims' and 'buzzes' or whatever. Then compounded that by personally insulting anyone who had a different point of view. Then further compounded it by saying she would FLOUT THE LAW if they banned them?

And for the life of me I cannot see why an electric shock collar would be the collar of 'choice' for anyone who doesn't intend to ever use it (as she says she won't have to) most of us choose collars or harnesses based firstly on COMFORT and then on style, colour, whatever.

Anyone that much 'on the defensive' appears to me to be feeling 'guilty' just MHO. And we are all entitled to our honest opinions even if they are our honest stupid opinions!

As for the debate about aversion methods vs reward methods involving 'treats'. I'm VERY OLD. And have never used reward treat methods to train any dog I've owned. They weren't on the menu 30 or more years ago. Positive praise is the method I use. YES it takes longer - a lot longer (and it does require constant and DAILY reinforcement - no way I could have done what Gnasher says she will do with this DA Black Lab for the aggression stuff - wait for a day or time convenient to me becoz I'm 'busy' - it's a daily all day ongoing process and you keep it up every day even when it isn't 'needed'. But it then works even if you don't have a pocketful of dried liver. Or a dog that isn't interested in treats or hardly even interested in eating its dinner! (I've had two of those - my Bella is one of them) but then I don't really care if it takes me a WHOLE YEAR to train my dog to a good recall. Once she's got it, she's got it for good, reinforced every day even if never needed. And all she need is a GOOD GIRL Bella and a tickle on her chest. I'd rather stick a needle in my EYE than give my dog an electric shock.

Same question occurs to me too. But although I admire Gnasher's ability to debate she lost the argument big time for me when she started calling these electric shocks 'stims' and 'buzzes' or whatever. Then compounded that by personally insulting anyone who had a different point of view. Then further compounded it by saying she would FLOUT THE LAW if they banned them?

And for the life of me I cannot see why an electric shock collar would be the collar of 'choice' for anyone who doesn't intend to ever use it (as she says she won't have to) most of us choose collars or harnesses based firstly on COMFORT and then on style, colour, whatever.

Anyone that much 'on the defensive' appears to me to be feeling 'guilty' just MHO. And we are all entitled to our honest opinions even if they are our honest stupid opinions!

Dagnamm the short battery life on a business VAIO! Back later!

My dogs do this as well, even if I am walking or in someone else's car they know when I will be arriving home, this is normal.

Funny enough mine do / did too, just like most dogs....

Yes and my dog knows the sound of my car. Even if she is 5 floors up and at the other side of the building.

Dogs have brilliant hearing. They also seem to 'know the time of day'. I recall our old mongrel, Ruffchops, when I was a kid, trotting off to the bus stop on the A13 to meet my mum off her bus when she got home from her job in Maycocks laundry!

No one in those days thought it was anything spectacular or wonderful.

Absolutely Brings this to mind........."Me thinks the Lady doth protest too much"

Gnasher, I know you've said it a couple of times now, but I for one would be interested in seeing a video of Ben. Would be also interesting to see him with other dogs, or as you said, reacting at BL's. You say he's not fearful or defensive, and I'd like to see what behaviour it is you're seeing. Just for my own curious mind, and if you're up to it, then please do!

Yup, mine too strange huh