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Location: Yorkshire, UK
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 877
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Originally Posted by
Ramble
I agree with most of this post wholeheartedly but having worked in education for, well a few years lol, I have seen various tests mark out children as intelligent or not intelligent, but they are never holistic; they only ever look at one aspect of 'intelligence' whatever aspect is in fashion at the time. It has made me view any sort of intelligence test with scepticism in all honesty and therefore when such tests are applied to animals it gets silly. We cannot assess or compare the intelligence of anothet species with our own using man made man biased tests. It's silly
There is
no common ground to base the tests on as we do not
Know enough about the animal
Kingdom.
As for the food chain thing; better scientists than us have argued it and no doubt will continue to do so. Who is the top predator if you are alone in a field in Africa with no gun ; you or a lion. Who is the top predator if you are surfing off the coast; you or a shark? Who is the top predator if you disturb a wasp nest? Or are bitten by a snake in the outback? Or you have a gun and are taken by surprise? The discussion and debate about that can go on and on and on
I think what's getting mixed up (not by you but just generally) is intelligence and ethics, someone can be intelligent but lack ethics to use that intelligence wisely, which for me includes lacking the motivation to actually use their own intelligence in a way which beneifts them and possibly others, not just having intelligence and using it in a way that is obviously detrimental to others and our surroundings.
Depends which field you stand in, considering the ritual for a Masai male is to go out and kill a male lion with nothing more than a spear, if you were stood in a field in Kenya/Tanzania, you may well find lions are fearful of man, and will run away. If you did the same in Botswana or other southern African countries, you'd find them less fearful, as they are not hunted in the same way. Snakes generally slither away as quickly as possible, it's only when they feel cornered they resort to other methods of intimidation, it's only a handful of snakes world wide that are actually considered to be *aggressive*. So it depends what you call a predator really, having lived in Africa I've come across snakes, scorpions, poisonous centipedes and spiders, and all sorts outside my back door and always came off the best, I've sat next to lions on a fresh kill less than six feet away, in an open topped vehicle, because lions don't recognise us as possible prey in that instance. I'm not a scientist btw, just a slightly intelligent human being
Originally Posted by
Gnasher
Tarimoor: apologies, I don't know how to do the multi-quote thing, so I have to embed my answers to each of your paragraphs in your actual posting. Which then makes it very difficult to pick up on, so I have started afresh and will try to answer you!
my point about the difference between a fox being pursued as prey, and a rabbit is this. A rabbit, being a herbivore, is genetically geared up to respond to a myriad of threats that happen in the course of any one day. Threats from buzzards, foxes, humans, dogs, cats, weasels, polecats, mink, stoats, badgers to name but a few. Every second of their time spent above ground is on the alert, they can never truly relax because of the constant threat of attack from above, around and even below ground. A fox is not a prey animal, and does not have to live like this when above ground. You will frequently see foxes sunbathing if you come across them downwind and very quietly, it is not until they see or smell you that they will nonchantly trot off into the undergrowth. this is the exact opposite of the reaction from a rabbit. I believe this is why it is far more stressful for a fox to be a prey animal, than a rabbit, because the rabbit is genetically geared up to be a prey animal, for ever living its life in fear of attack from all sides. I hope I have explained this clearly enough for you, and apologies for the confusion!
You are kidding me about blow flies!! Surely you know what they are and how dangerous they are? Bluebottles ... that lay hundreds of tiny little yellow fleck-like eggs on any food, especially meat and fish, left uncovered. They are everywhere in the UK and are definitely to be swatted if you are unfortunate enough to get one in your kitchen. Obviously one doesn't leave food lying out on the surfaces uncovered, but I had the misfortune to shut one in my fridge once and the dang thing contaminated a beautiful joint of lamb! My mother subsequently told me that you can wash the offending eggs off with vinegar, and it will be quite safe as long as the maggotts haven't hatched out, but I didn't know that at the time and I was furious!!
I have to disagree about foxes and rabbits, I've seen rabbits sunbathing, and pigeons, both ideal snacks or a myriad of predators, just as I've seen foxes sneaking off at the sign of something they find evokes a sense of fear, even if they don't understand why. That aside, neither the fox or the rabbit would feel any different if they were actually pursued, I think both would feel the same way, it's a natural part of the flight mechanism for all animals, not just prey animals.
I apologise but my understanding of blow fly is the one that lays it's eggs on clothing, which then transfers to your skin where it hatches and burrows into your skin and actually pupates under the skin beore emerging as an adult. I've never referred to bluebottles as blow fly or heard them referred to as this name, but it seems the term 'blow fly' refers to a whole family of these insects. Hence the confusion