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smokeybear
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28-09-2011, 09:00 AM
Yeah Orijen does not swell at all.
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rueben
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28-09-2011, 09:01 AM
Originally Posted by Bitkin View Post
Were you feeding the old recipe perfectly happily, and then had major problems with a new bag?

If three of us so far on this site have had bad reactions, then just think how many people there must be around the place who have poorly dogs..........and all because an accountant somewhere probably told them to cut costs

Jimmi not only had the problems that I mentioned above, but he was also not a well dog. He was sick, and was very sorry for himself.
Bitkin-I believe you are probably correct with your conclusion.
If the books need balancing and corners have to be cut they could be using a cheaper inferior source in either supplier or ingredients.
In either case it may be a new recipe but not an improved one.
In fact will the reported problems users on here are finding it appears to be the opposite.
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Bitkin
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28-09-2011, 06:10 PM
Originally Posted by rueben View Post
Hi - If I am not mistaken Wafcol Salmon and potato has a minimum of 32% potato and this means it could have more which is quite a high percentage of starchy carbohydrate.
This will absorb a fair amount of water causing it to swell quite a bit.
Kibbles that contain starchy carbohydrates in either cereal or potato form will swell depending on the amount in the kibble.
The kibble that Harvey is on now is low in carbohydrates and high in protein and as protein doesn't absorb water it shouldn't swell much when water is added.
It's good that Harvey is doing ok so far and I hope this kibble is a success for him.
Looking at the new list of ingredients, potato is now top of the list! What you have just said might well account for why Jimmi became so thirsty, as well as unwell.
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smokeybear
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28-09-2011, 06:12 PM
Potato (34%), Salmon (24%), Salmon Meal (13%), Whole Lupin, Seaweed (6%), Sunflower Oil, Salmon Oil (2%), Salmon Digest (1.8%), Minerals, Vitamins, Mannan-Oligosaccharides (2150mg/kg), Fructo-Oligosaccharides (2150mg/kg), Glucosamine (340mg/kg), Methylsulfonylmethane (MSM 340mg/kg), Chondroitin (240mg/kg)

Well fish will make dogs thirsty.

Did the old recipe used to contain lupin as well? Because lupins are known to be highly allergenic to some like peanuts......................
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Bitkin
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28-09-2011, 09:38 PM
Originally Posted by smokeybear View Post
Potato (34%), Salmon (24%), Salmon Meal (13%), Whole Lupin, Seaweed (6%), Sunflower Oil, Salmon Oil (2%), Salmon Digest (1.8%), Minerals, Vitamins, Mannan-Oligosaccharides (2150mg/kg), Fructo-Oligosaccharides (2150mg/kg), Glucosamine (340mg/kg), Methylsulfonylmethane (MSM 340mg/kg), Chondroitin (240mg/kg)

Well fish will make dogs thirsty.

Did the old recipe used to contain lupin as well? Because lupins are known to be highly allergenic to some like peanuts......................
Maybe it does, but the point is the food DIDN'T make Jimmi thirsty until they changed the recipe, and nor did the home cooked fish etc., or for that matter the Fish4dogs that he is on now.

Yes, I believe that the old recipe contained lupin.
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smokeybear
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28-09-2011, 09:44 PM
It was just a thought, fortunately my dogs do not have allergies or intolerances nor are they on dry dog food, so it is not something that concerns me, I just wondered if you knew about lupin and had the old analysis/ingredients list to be able to make a comparison.

However ingredients that fall below a certain percentage do not have to be declared so that may be a consideration.

All dry foods will make dogs more thirsty than those fed raw or wet etc.
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Velvetboxers
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28-09-2011, 10:39 PM
Well Harvey is still itchy, not as bad or as pink but it's not cleared by any means

Unfortunately he needs a lot more of this food than any of the others so unless problems calm down significantly it would not be cost effective to feed & we will be back to square one
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Velvetboxers
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28-09-2011, 11:08 PM
Originally Posted by smokeybear View Post
It was just a thought, fortunately my dogs do not have allergies or intolerances nor are they on dry dog food, so it is not something that concerns me, I just wondered if you knew about lupin and had the old analysis/ingredients list to be able to make a comparison.

However ingredients that fall below a certain percentage do not have to be declared so that may be a consideration.

All dry foods will make dogs more thirsty than those fed raw or wet etc.
Yes I have the two lists. Only feeding the one dog I would just buy the smaller bags, always had one in backup. When I said the recipes differed, to the Nutritionalist she said the Ingredients were no different, it is because of new legislation they have t0 list all ingredients, however in the old recipe there is 25% salmon,in the new there is 24% which may not seem much however something so slight 1% here & there could just tip the balance for sensitive animals

If they had kept the recipe the same & put the price up, most of us with sensitive dogs would have paid it rather than disrupt our pets, just a shame

Sally & I both add water to dry food so in essence when it's fed, it is moist food
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rueben
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29-09-2011, 08:56 AM
Originally Posted by Bitkin View Post
I suspect that some of those were people concerned about the strong meaty smell, but I just don't believe that VB and I are the only ones with dogs who have suffered a bad reaction.

Jimmi is now on Fish4dogs Salmon & Potato, and is as right as rain thank goodness.
A strong meaty smell doesn't sound quite right to me!
The ingredients used may not have been fresh and become rancid.
If that was the case it could compromise the immune system especially in a sensitive dog.
Carbohydrate as lead ingredient is making this kibble inferior in ingredients and poor value for money.
The more carbohydrate eaten the more water the body needs and holds so your dog would definitely drink more fluid.
Pleased to hear you have found an agreeable kibble.
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smokeybear
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29-09-2011, 09:18 AM
There are very very few foods where carbohydrates do NOT make up the vast bulk of the food.

Rancidity is controlled by preservatives either artificial or natural but that protection ceases the DAY the bag is opened.

Unfortunately what may be MORE likely is the presence of aflatoxins in the grain content ie lupin etc which is NOT killed by processing.
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