"Toys are a Soft Option for Lazy Owners"

This statement is taken from another forum where a good deal of the members own working gundogs. It was something said by a member on there and there was agreement and disagreement about it and I thought it would be interesting to see what Dogsey folk thought.

I personally disagree with the statement. All those thousands of years ago when dogs first came into human camps, we chose the dogs which were most companionable and we've selectively bred domestic dogs to retain much of their 'puppyisms'.

Dogs like to play with toys, it's a natural behaviour. Wild dogs as youngsters will play with objects they find (bones, bit of fur, feathers etc), we just substitute those items in the home for man made toys.

2 of my dogs are very toy orientated and as soon as I say the word "toys" or "ball" they charge over to their toybox and wait for me to get something out. In training toys are also an invaluable tool (as long as your dog finds them rewarding).

I remember when Flynn was a pup and he attended puppy class at the vets. There was a guy there I knew from school with his springer pup and it was trying to play with the toys and get involved with the other pups but he wouldnt let it because it was destined for work. I fully understand why working gundogs generally dont have toys in their life, you wouldnt want one shaking a pheasant about or trying to get you to have a tug-o-war! But there is a part of me which thinks they are missing out on something enriching and possibly important in their lives. It's something which puts me off serious gundog work because I believe dogs need toys. Flynn is besotted with any kind of toy and the thought of him never having an opportunity to play with them saddens me (as it does Jessie).

But as far as the statement goes specifically, I dont think toys are a lazy option. I think simply not playing with your dog is the lazy option!

Thoughts and opinions please

For Louie (the sad excuse of a gundog he is not his fault though) toys are one thing - his dummies are another. He knows he can't shake his dummies or mess about with them (he is reluctant to give them back but he's still learning to hold it so I'm playing on this)

As I am sure that Flynn sees his dummies as training/work, but I am with you on this - I think a dog needs play to learn.

what a lot of twaddle.

What context is this in?

Dogs having toys to play with themselves or interactive toys such as balls which I KNOW gundog trainers use?!

There is NO reason why a guindog cannot play tuggy, they are not stupid, they know the difference between game and A game.

What these people mean is that a) THEY cannot use a tugger with their dog as they do not have the skills, knowleedge, ability, training or experience to be able to do it and b) they do not have the tools in their toolbox or are unable to utilise them.

There are PLENTY of working gundogs as well as competing dogs that tug and play with toys.

What people like this fail to realise is that ANYTHING is a toy.

Still, no loss to me, if they were competing against me I would just shrug my shoulders and think "one less person I have to worry about"

All good dog trainers play with their dogs, in ALL disciplines.

dogs that dont know how to play with toys is a sad thing to see,

my mums rescue bitch emmy didn't have a clue how to play, she would chase the other dogs who were chasing a ball, but if she got there first she would just look at it and jump around like a looney at the other dogs.

my mum cried the first time emmy went after a toy herself and picked it up, she is now a different dog, who loves to play.

i don't think toys are a lazy option at all, i also believe that dogs can learn to distinguish between work and play
(ok so i dont work dogs in the sense of having a gun dog/search dog/sheep dog etc..)

going back to emmy, she is a complete loon of a dog, loves to play etc now, but as soon as her half check goes on, she see's my treat bag get clipped on to my jeans her whole demeanour change's and she knows its time to be serious/no mucking about its training time

Benjie doesn't know how to play either - he chases the other two around when they're playing.

Search dogs are trained to find people - who have tuggers so when they are found they are played with.

Reading the Martin Clunes book - he is burying and found and the dogs are trained to find live and dead people. The search team say that sometimes they have to deal with distraught families or friends who not only have to see the finding (if they are helping too) of this body but have to see the dogs being praised and played with - but it's what motivates the dog.. if it works then you can't stop it - especially if it's saving lives... or making the job quicker and more fun.

The context behind the statement was me merely enquiring what kind of owners breeders want for their pups. Somebody said they would not sell to a home who enquired about toys for their dog, and hence the statement came about.

It'd be a horrendously dull life for most dogs if they were never allowed to play with toys. What do they mean by a soft option for lazy owners? That those who play with their dog with toys are too lazy to train? Too lazy to exercise? Guess we should tell that to those who train and work search dogs then!

I'm sure a working gundog is intelligent enough to learn the difference between a ball or rope toy and a dummy or the game it has to bring back. Just as obedience dogs can play fetch without doing a full on formal retrieve every time they bring the toy back.

If I were a breeder I wouldn't want my pups going to homes where they wouldn't be played with. I find that very sad.

Sounds like playing to me - unless he's in stop running around or I'll flatten you mode.

If I don't give mine toys they find their own - sticks stones anything they can chew or fling around. I don't think what they were supposedly bred for is an option for most owners (ratting etc) so toys are a safer option. I don't feel lazy when I am for the 150th time that day throwing a ball for Mollie or playing tug games with Duncan. But I guess compared with anyone training their dogs for field work it could look that way.

I dont want to post too much of what this person has said because I dont want it to appear like i'm making this thread about them but to put it into a little more perspective this is the quote in it's entirity, take your own meaning from it:

""Dogs need toys" is what polite Yanks would call "horse feathers". Dogs that don't gain fulfillment from their environment may benefit from toys as it is preferential that they chew toys rather than each other and deffinitely not themselves. Toys are a soft option for lazy owners."