Yes we are all entitled to our views. Shame most dont show the compassion towards animals, that they deserve. People have gave up trying to educate him, Azz did a very good thread with information about the harm they can cause, if people read that and still agree with them - imo they dont deserve to be on a DOG LOVERS forum, claiming to be one!

You are too idealistic Mish - see everything in black and white (no reference intended to your lovely dogs!!). I don't know how you can insinuate that Adam is not a dog lover. You may not agree with him in any shape or form, that is not the issue here, but to suggest that he is a dog abuser just because you, and admittedly many others, do not agree with his methods is tantamount to libel!

You are lucky in your choice of breed - who whilst do not come into the world ready-trained, are extremely biddable, with a huge desire to please their humans and whilst I have known many collies with issues, I CANNOT think of one who was actually disobedient. Sometimes we have to seemingly be cruel to be kind

I can find internet sites proclaiming that extending leads are extremely cruel and very dangerous.

Any tool can be potentially dangerous. A choke chain can cause terrible damage as we all know, prong collars, well we won't even go there, e collars in the wrong hands for the wrong reasons on the wrong dogs, collars that are too tight, or too loose.

I am sure there are many dogs who have been harmed by e collars - as there are dogs who have been harmed by sticks, leads, collars, electric fences, barbed wire, the list is endless. No disrespect to Azz whatsoever, but I think there is too much hysteria surrounding e collars because they are "electricity!".

E-collars will ONLY ever be in the wrong hands No responsible, decent dog owner would even consider using one.

I can find websites that say kibble is dangerous too. You can't say "x is OK because people criticize y too!". Extending leads may be bad (and I would personally never use one) but that doesn't have any bearing on how good or bad e-collars are.

no...because they HURT and the person using them intentionally sets out to HURT the dog

Whatever happened to freedom of speech, and freedom of choice.

There are as many people who would disagree with you, as there are who agree.

now thats a scarey thought

Yeah, I see what you're saying. If I got a dose of pain from an unknown source everytime I reacted to a spider I can only imagine how that would spiral downward quickly lol.

Example: if I'm working in the garden & I come across a spider & jumped back... Which is my knee jerk reaction & if I recived a painful adversive everytime I did that I imagine how my reaction would change

Unfortunately, dogs have neither so have to rely on our commonsense and compassion