New thread on dogs who may/have killed other animals.

First off I think several posters were WELL out of order on the thread poor Zoe posted. I find it disgusting that people will defend dogs who have badly maimed/injured people and say that it was probably the persons fault etc. Defend and, in some cases, encourage the killing of small mammals by their dogs and yet be so apppallingly unkind and judgemental to someone who has had the courage to step back and look at the situatiuon with one of her dogs and has managed to see through the human emotions and understand that animals don't always behave as we would like them to.

To say that dogs 'murder' is just ridiculous.

I have a lurcher/lab who has fitted in the past. When he comes out he wants to kill anything in reach---including me. I am phobic about keeping him with me and not leraving him with the others---but I go to the loo without him and he goes out in the mornings for toilet without me and with them. He sleeps by my bed, I would wake if he fitted---I have done before. He is split from them when I am out.

I have dogs who stay and a very small dog with a certain amount of attitude. I am careful but one day I could get it wrong, I could forget or just assume that certain dogs will be OK when they aren't.

It could happen to me, and from the posts I have read several people are rethinking their assumptions.

This isn't the first time I have heard of it happening and I doubt it will be the last.

rune

In view of some posters comments, I'd like to know why a dog killing another in it's pack (obviously for a reason) is any different or worse than a dog hunting and killing wildlife?

Have to admit I have read the other thread and totally agree with you. At the end of the day dogs are animals they do not have the same thoughts and emotions as us. Never will do and we should not expect them to either. If the dog is normally a friendly dog and does something like this out of usual character I would say there was a reason ie illness in that dog or as has been mentioned the other dog may poss of had a fit or such like. Horrible though it is, its a dogs instinct and we try to take away too much of that at times IMO.

I myself always kep my two together I have a youngster and an oldie and to be honest I wont be changing how I leave them. Its not possible with my house and ZAk has bad HD so a crate is out of the question for him. I am home 95% of the time anyway.

I know not all would agree but thats what make us human

Duncan if we aren't quick enough goes ratting he will kill anything small and furry (scared of spiders though ) I have no doubts if he met a cat off lead he would do his best to kill it his entire demeanor changes when he is feeling the urge to kill. We have been lucky so far that it has only been rats and a rabbit and if we could have prevented those kills we would have done.

We did have a dog a few years ago who in old age started to have small fits and after we saw how the other dogs behaved when he came to, we decided safest thing was to crate him while we were not present. Again we were lucky we saw signs before anything awful happened. Seeing Zoe's thread I think it really is just luck that we did. And I personally feel they did all they could in the circumstances.

As an aside I will say some of the posts in her thread make me ashamed to be a member here today !

I`ve worked in stables where horses have seriously injured people - occasionally deliberately. If a horse kicks you across the yard no-one suggests punishing the horse. They tie a red ribbon in the tail and you take more care.
Cows have killed hikers (quite recently there was a case). Again - no-one suggests these were `wicked` cows.
They are animals. Behaving as animals do.
I think it is an indication of how people regard dogs - as hairy humans - that a human morality is expected of dogs.
If you look at these incidents objectively - accepting that this is an animal not your friend or your baby - you can usually see the situation should have been better managed and was preventable. Unfortunately people don`t look at their dog`s body language until it is too late.
eta this is not a criticism of the poor lady on the other thread - I understand that sometimes sh*t happens and can`t be forseen. But the responsibility is still with the people who are in charge, not with the animals.

(BC x JRT) Sadie's killed a pigeon before and she wasn't yet a year old when she did that.
(GSD x) Benjie has killed Rats that have wandered into the garden for the bunny food.
(ESS x Lab) Louie - well lets hope not (but he is a gundog x from working stock)

Louie sometimes screams like prey in his sleep - the others look up and then go back to sleep - they have killed before - but I don't think unless it was serious they would to it again.
I leave all mine together. Never thought that a pigeon or rat would be mistaken for another dog though.

I too believe that some of the comments were out of order also.

I have an English Setter who is the softest thing I've ever met, yet he had a go at Claires (Settagirls) Codee for no reason and left a bite mark in her neck. Fortunately he is scared of cats but he is a devil if he sees a squirrel and I have no doubt he would kill one if he caught it, or a bird if he was a bit more intelligent.

I had an Irish, (Alfie), that had lived with all my others for 7 years when he suddenly attacked one of my English boys (Fabian), and got him to the floor, shaking him by the throat. Fabian is not a fighter and I dread to think what would have happened had I not been there, the first time all the others kept well out of it.

From that moment on those two boys were kept apart unless I was about. A week or so later we were in the garden together, Fabian was beside me and Alfie launched himself at him, threw him to the floor and had him by the throat again, as I pulled him off the others were all laying into Alfie, something I had never witnessed with these soft dogs before.

Needless to say, a very tearful phone conversation took place and Alfie went to my friends daughter where he still lives in perfect harmony with another male Irish. There was no question of me having Alfie put to sleep, the agreement was that he was taken to the vets for a full check up, at my expense, and would be monitored closely. He had a clean bill of health and has shown no signs of this since.

At this time my dear old Bailey, who was the eldest, was starting to suffer badly with arthritis, he was undergoing acupuncture and I just wonder if it was a sorting out of who would be top dog...I know some people don't believe in that but I had seen it with my own eyes with my lot, the youngsters respected the older dogs, even though, until then, there had never been any problems, it was almost an unwritten rule amongst them that they could play, sleep and eat together, but if they pushed their luck they would get frowned at.

What I'm trying to say is that, had I not been there on either of those occasions, I have no doubt that Alfie would have ripped Fabians throat out and I would have come home to a sight similar to that of Zoe and her husband. When I first read the thread my instant reaction was she should have him pts, but then I thought back to what had happened in my house, thankfully it wasn't tragic as Zoe's was, but I feel she has made the right decision for her, especially as she is now taking precautions to ensure he is seperate when they are not there to supervise.

There is a world of difference between a dog killing a prey animal like a rabbit, bird, etc., and another dog in it's household.

I for one could never in a million years keep a dog that had killed another one of my dogs in an aggressive manner.

What is with this ''if he growls then he should be pts'' attitude lately anyway?

You can't get the perfect dog. It doesn't exist. Dogs, like people all have behaviour problems. You need to work on them and understand them, not just destroy them!

Were you there to witness it being ''in an aggressive manner''?