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Blu
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11-08-2010, 10:53 PM

Aggression..

Lately Cheeko has been getting really bad. When he has something he doesn't want us to have he is going for us or trying to shave him. Last week he took a huge chunck out of my thumb then got mums arm. Few nights later he had something under mums bed and she went to see what it was but he came out and bit her nipple and her arm.. Well he's just been under the bed with Blu with a toy of Blu's but mum thought they had something. She looked under the bed, Cheeko comes pouncing out and goes for her. She had on a glove for giving the piggies hay and he ripped right through it. Mum's in the kitchen crying with the pain. Luckily he hasn't broken the skin..

Few months ago we were at a dog show and dad phoned. He had went under the bed to see where Cheeko was and he came out, all his teeth showing, ripped right through dads jumper and his arm was black and blue.

After he went for mum tonight I thought 'he needs to be pts if this continues..' and she said the same. The only solution we can think of his a bed he can't get under because he makes that his den. But until we can afford one is there anything worth trying?

He is a great dog who we trust aslong as he doesn't have something we aren't 'allowed'. He's never hurt Blu but I'm worried Blu will pick up on his behaviour and start copying him
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DevilDogz
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11-08-2010, 10:58 PM
I think you have the right idea getting a bed that he can not get under. This will hopefully help solve the problem. Although only time will tell with that as he may also find something else to 'claim'. Is there anyway you can block the bed you have at current off? using something? or not letting him in the bed room, by keeping doors shut? It must be hard to have him reacting in such a way but he seems to be thinking he owns certain things and no one else has the right to get in his way or take over 'his' things. I think that needs sorting out, you own him, he doesnt own you.

How do you correct this behaviour? or are you not?
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Blu
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11-08-2010, 11:04 PM
Originally Posted by DevilDogz View Post
I think you have the right idea getting a bed that he can not get under. This will hopefully help solve the problem. Although only time will tell with that as he may also find something else to 'claim'. Is there anyway you can block the bed you have at current off? using something? or not letting him in the bed room, by keeping doors shut? It must be hard to have him reacting in such a way but he seems to be thinking he owns certain things and no one else has the right to get in his way or take over 'his' things. I think that needs sorting out, you own him, he doesnt own you.

How do you correct this behaviour? or are you not?
He will claim anywhere he can. Tried shutting the door in the past but he just claims my room, then the kitchen etc..

If we touch something it's his. The only way we can get it off of him is by giving him a treat otherwise we will get attacked.

For correcting it there isn't much we do.. We try to put him in a crate or the kitchen without saying anything but he goes for us because we have touched him. When grooming him we can't even get a muzzle on him because he tries to bite. My friend is coming over to have a go at shaving him next week but I'm doubtful..

He is great in every other way just he has this really nasty streak in him. Afterwords he acts asif nothing has happened. Guess this is what happens from getting a puppy farm dog eh
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DevilDogz
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11-08-2010, 11:09 PM
Im not even going to bother trying to give advice because apart from common sense with dog behaviour I havent a clue what im talking about. Hopefully Tassle will see this and give you some advice, sounds like cheeko is being a little swear word! He could just be pushing his luck, trying to gain attention or what ever, there could be a number of reasons I guess but like I say, I will leave it for them that know what their talking about.

Although I personally wouldnt be given treats as in my eyes this is rewarding him.

Hope you can get this sorted, and dont give up yet until you have tried every option.
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Blu
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11-08-2010, 11:13 PM
I'm at obediance tomorrow anyway and the trainer is really good (she is the dog warden) so might ask her to come to the house one day to help

It's really hard with the treats because we know it's rewarding him but when he has say my glasses there is no other way atall of getting them off of him without them being chewed. He isn't stupid and knows how to get stuff wherever it is. Can't even leave shoes around because he destroys them.

He will let Blu take anything off of him and doesn't snap but as soon as it comes to us..
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Jackie
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12-08-2010, 08:24 AM
Originally Posted by Blu View Post
Lately Cheeko has been getting really bad. When he has something he doesn't want us to have he is going for us or trying to shave him. Last week he took a huge chunck out of my thumb then got mums arm. Few nights later he had something under mums bed and she went to see what it was but he came out and bit her nipple and her arm.. Well he's just been under the bed with Blu with a toy of Blu's but mum thought they had something. She looked under the bed, Cheeko comes pouncing out and goes for her. She had on a glove for giving the piggies hay and he ripped right through it. Mum's in the kitchen crying with the pain. Luckily he hasn't broken the skin..

Few months ago we were at a dog show and dad phoned. He had went under the bed to see where Cheeko was and he came out, all his teeth showing, ripped right through dads jumper and his arm was black and blue.

After he went for mum tonight I thought 'he needs to be pts if this continues..' and she said the same. The only solution we can think of his a bed he can't get under because he makes that his den. But until we can afford one is there anything worth trying?

He is a great dog who we trust aslong as he doesn't have something we aren't 'allowed'. He's never hurt Blu but I'm worried Blu will pick up on his behaviour and start copying him
Originally Posted by Blu View Post
He will claim anywhere he can. Tried shutting the door in the past but he just claims my room, then the kitchen etc..

If we touch something it's his. The only way we can get it off of him is by giving him a treat otherwise we will get attacked.

For correcting it there isn't much we do.. We try to put him in a crate or the kitchen without saying anything but he goes for us because we have touched him. When grooming him we can't even get a muzzle on him because he tries to bite. My friend is coming over to have a go at shaving him next week but I'm doubtful..

He is great in every other way just he has this really nasty streak in him. Afterwords he acts asif nothing has happened. Guess this is what happens from getting a puppy farm dog eh
First thing you need to do is restrict access to all places he is resource guarding and you have difficulty getting to him...i.e under beds and behind sofa`s.


Put a baby gate at the bottom of the stairs, this way he cant get up and take possession of any bed room.

If its toys or food, then dont leave anything laying around.

You say he will "swap" an item, thats good, continue with that, teach him swap, and leave, keep high value treats at hand, and only give him these (dont treat him unless he is doing something for you) i.e giving you something he has , or coming out from a hiding hole.

Never back him into a corner, (thats what you are doing , when you stick your head under the bed to get him out)

If lets say he is under the bed, and you want him out, then get something he values, tasty food, throw some on the floor, he will come out , or go down stairs, does he come when the door bell is rung, does he come when you say "walkies" anything that will distract him from his intention to guard what ever it is he has.

the less he does these things, the less he is going not do them, the more he does it , the more self rewarding it becomes, you change the goal posts, and he will forget he was guarding his prize, and come see what you have.

I am guessing you also mean he does not like to be clipped, again use the same principle, reward him for allowing you to get in him with the clippers...

Sure some of the professional groomers will be along soon to give you some tips.

But remember if you have more than one dog in the house, that means you cant allow them to have toys around the house , for them but not him. you will have to implement the same routine for all dogs ,

It may be a good idea to implement NILF in your household with ALL the dogs.

http://www.pets.ca/articles/article-dog_nilf.htm

Basically he will have to earn his rewards,
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Jackie
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12-08-2010, 08:37 AM
Originally Posted by Blu View Post
I'm at obediance tomorrow anyway and the trainer is really good (she is the dog warden) so might ask her to come to the house one day to help

It's really hard with the treats because we know it's rewarding him but when he has say my glasses there is no other way atall of getting them off of him without them being chewed. He isn't stupid and knows how to get stuff wherever it is. Can't even leave shoes around because he destroys them.

He will let Blu take anything off of him and doesn't snap but as soon as it comes to us..
You are rewarding the good behaviour NOT the bad, you are rewarding him for GIVING up one prize for another.


What you are doing is the right thing,

Have to be blunt here, its not Cheeko`s fault for stealing your glasses, or shoes left laying around the house, its yours and your families..

If you have a stealer,/chewer/ guarder, you cant leave anything laying around, you may say, but thats impossible, but if you dont want him to steal things, then you (the family) have to have a stricter regime around the house.

Go round the house on your hands and knees, look at the world from his point of view... what looks tasty, what looks like it might be a good chew, can I reach that, if I can reach and pinch it, its fair game!!!


Basically, dont leave shoes laying around, dont leave your glasses (my boy ate 3 pairs of mine ) laying around, its that simple, hard to implement , but simple none the less.

if you leave it , he will get it, if he is a climber, put things higher up where he cant get them, if he is guarding the whole house, restrict his access to a small area.
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ClaireandDaisy
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12-08-2010, 09:29 AM
Great response from Jackbox.
TBH I was slightly gobsmacked when you said your dad tried to drag a confirmed biter out from under a bed. Not something I`d do. If a dog is hiding, I`d assume he`s scared and leave him alone, personally.
Please, if he`s hiding, don`t confront him. What else can he do but bite?
He sounds like a very stressed dog. A behaviourist might be able to help, but make sure they have proper qualifications, not a franchise.
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Lotsadogs
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12-08-2010, 10:49 AM
This article may help. It relates specifically to food guarding but the logic is similar for most resource guarding - the more you take things away from a do, the more they have the opportinity to develop and possibly escalate their their guarding skills, as appears to be the case with your dog.

I agree with others that you should ensure the guarding area is sealed of, that things that the dog is not allowed to have are not left layng around, and that wherever possible you teach the dog that your presence brings more benefits, not less.

Hope this article brings some understanding to you and is helpful..


Understanding and preventing food guarding.

Introduction

It is my experience, that dogs share with humans the basic inborn instinct to protect their food. It is a survival instinct. All mammals have this instinct to some degree or other.

The instinct to protect their food within the domestic environment may be latent in some dogs, but it is there. And it could surface at any time, if the dog feels the need to defend its survival resource has arisen.

It is my view, that what happens to this food guarding instinct, whether it remains latent, or develops into full blown food guarding with growling, snapping, lunging and even biting, is usually a direct result of its learning. The learning that humans provide.

The problem for the dog is that what is a perfectly natural and healthy behaviour, often inadvertently instigated by misguided human behaviour, can ultimately end in the dog finding himself homeless, or worse, dead. Food guarding is seen as aggression, which I don’t believe it usually is, aggression is seen as unacceptable in a dog in today’s modern society and it is the dog that often pays the price.

This document has been put together in an effort to bring an understanding to how food guarding can be prevented or resolved. I hope you enjoy reading it.

If I where to get cross with your for stealing my chocolate, or chips or pizza, you would probably consider that understandable. You might say, “don’t do that”, or “Eh, they are my chips!” No one would see it as aggression, just an attempt to protect what was yours, against the threat of my stealing it.

Lets look at this from the dog’s point of view………


How food guarding can come about

1 Fido the puppy comes into his new home. His owners love him and all is well.
2 As Fido grows, he becomes more confident and outgoing and one day on the park runs off and won’t return, is unusually pully on his lead and jumps up at a passing stranger with muddy paws, making both stranger and owner cross. Fido’s, owner has read some Old fashioned dog training book and wonders if Fido is getting “Dominant”?
3 He decides to test this out by seeing if Fido will let him take his food off him. He read this in a book..
4 When next feeding Fido, he reaches down and takes the bowl. Fido freezes and stares indicating his discomfort. Fido is surprised, there has never been a threat to his food before. The owner misses the signal that his dog was uncomfortable with this action, it was too subtle. But the dog didn’t growl, the owner is reassured. All is well.
5 Next Day Fido is really naughty. He jumps in a smelly pond chasing ducks and he stinks really badly. He refuses to come back when called and makes the owner late for breakfast. Owner decides that he must do something about this dog and he decides that he will implement a regular routine of removing the puppy’s food to show his authority.
6 Feeding Fido who is very hungry after a hard morning chasing ducks, tucks in to his food. As Fido is eating, the owner reaches down to take the food. Fido is more prepared this second time, he is now aware that his “stare” did nothing to prevent the removal of his food last time his owners hand approached his bowl. Fido is now ready to take more serious action. He utters a low warning growl as the hand approaches his food.
7 Fido’s owner, though aware he was testing his dog’s reaction. Did not actually expect this reaction, is shocked and withdraws his hand. Fido continues eating; glad his message has got across. All is well in Fido’s world. J But not his owners L.
8 Owner spends the day pondering Fido’s behaviour. He really can not have Fido behaving this way, Dog aggression as he sees this to be, is a dangerous business, he knows that. He decides to take further action.
9 When feeding Fido next day the owner decides if Fido growls he is going to scruff him, as it says in the book, or smack him to punish Fido’s misdemeanour and make it clear that he, the owner, is the boss, as it says in the book. His hand approaches the bowl, Fido growls, aware that this worked last time. Owner grabs Fido by the scruff, pushes him to the floor and shouts at him.
10 Really angry now, the owner removes Fido’s food and doesn’t give it back. Fido is very frightened and hungry too! He does not understand. Eating used to be a simple, necessary pleasure. Now it seems whenever there is an owner around when he eats, there is tension. Owner tries to steal his food, when Fido says he doesn’t like it, the owner shouts and causes him pain and fear. And takes his food away.
11 Fido decides the best thing is to keep the owner well away from the food in an effort to relieve the tension and avoid the shouting and scruffing and food removal. .
12 Next day, owner places food on floor, both dog and owner are now tense, wondering what the outcome of today’s feeding session might be.
13 Fido immediately goes into growl mode, summoning up his courage he gives his best “I’m not happy with you being here” stare and growls and curls his lips at his owner. He hovers over his food, standing stiff, glaring menacingly. “Back off” he growls. “Chill out about this food thing” he wishes, “go sit in the living room” he says. As the owner takes a step closer, he lunges, teeth displayed and snaps at the air. The owner, now scared, retreats. Fido resumes his eating, unnerved and worried that such tension arises at feeding time, but relieved that the owner has left his food, he is hungry!

14 The owner is horrified at this sudden display of ‘aggression’, his cute puppy has turned into an ugly, vicious, dog. He is outraged and has visions of what might happen if he ever marries and has children, with this dog around. He feels compelled to fix it. Adrenalin rushing and determined to show his dominance over the dog, he roars at the dog, and reaches down, once more for the dog’s scruff. The dog with reactions 3 times faster than that of a human, interprets the owners move and desperate to avoid more scruffing or the removal of his survival resource, bites the owner’s hand before it reaches the bowl.
15 All is far from well now in Fido’s world or his owners L.
16 From point 4 of this story, Fido has been progressively put in the situation where he feels it necessary to guard his food. He needs food to live. Fido feels that he has to be on his guard whenever he is eating. He also understands that humans do not necessarily understand, lip curling, snarling, staring, stiffening or growling. The only thing that really makes them back off is biting.
17 Whatever happens next to Fido, he will never forget that human hands can and do sometimes take away his food when he is eating. He is aware that he must be ever vigilant to the approach of humans. He is now aware that most attempts to communicate - growling, snarling, lip curling, staring, freezing, lunging and air snapping - all normal attempts to AVOID aggression or conflict in the dog world, are not recognised and responded to by humans.
18 As many food guarders do, Fido ends up in a rescue home. Others find themselves immediately at the sharp end of a needle.
19 His owner, ashamed at having such an aggressive dog, but too embarrassed to seek help himself, tells the home that he simply doesn’t have time to care for the dog anymore. Fido, an otherwise friendly, well-socialised dog, quickly finds a new home.
20 There are children in this one and he loves them. They play happily together all day the first day. Fido has good manners and the owners are delighted with him. He is gentle and respectful with the children even the baby. The children have read a dog training book and they give him treats in return for sits. All is well again. Fido loves his new home, his new owners love him and the children are delighted to have such a cuddly, playful new friend. Wouldn’t it be great if the story ended here?
21 At feeding time they place the bowl on the floor and walk away, Fido is relieved and happy, no action is necessary.
22 All is well for several weeks. The owners, children and dog are truly delighted.
23 And then one day, when Fido is eating, Fido’s friend, Rosie the baby, now crawling, toddles toward Fido, on her hands and Knees, as she gets closer she reaches out her tiny hand…In an instant Fido remembers that staring and freezing, growling, snarling, snapping, and lunging don’t always work with humans. He has only one option available to him to protect his food……. He doesn’t want to bite Rosie his friend and playmate, but he needs food to live…….

24 Rosie is scarred by the incident, mentally and physically. Her parents are distraught and cannot understand the sudden change in Fido – he had always been so gentle with Rosie before? And Fido, having bitten a baby is destroyed.

Food guarding is usually easily prevented – follow these points for happy relaxed mealtimes. .

DO NOT FALL INTO THE TRAP FIDOS OWNER DID!

If your dog is happy for you to approach his food or bones when eating, make him even happier, by adding to that food some higher value food like liver. Do this regularly.

Don’t give him things that you later want to take off him. If you do have to remove a bone and you are not confident of your dog’s reaction, call him into another room away from the bone. Bones and chews above all things are more likely to bring about food guarding behaviour because they are long lasting resources.

When my dogs are eating bones, I go to them and give them another bone. When my dogs are eating, I add food to their bowls.

Hand feeding your dog can to help make it understand that human hands PROVIDE food, not take it away. I often use my dog’s daily food for training purposes and this means I may feed my dog from my hand 100 times a day (tiny portions). They like my hands. Other people do the same – they like other peoples hands.

If you dog is the sort of dog who will have a bone, chew it, then leave it, but guard it from a distance, then only feed him bones when he is hungry enough to eat them, of the type that he can actually totally consume. Or give them in another room and leave him to it.

If ever your dog growls when eating or at any other time, remember he is only saying, “please don’t take my bone” or “please stop doing that”. If I said to you, please don’t take my chocolate would you scruff my or pin me to the floor??? If you did do that, do you think that would benefit our relationship? Do you think that it would make me respect you more???

If a dog growls and you leave him alone then he learns that growling is all he needs to do. GROWLING, IS NOT AGGRESSION, IT IS DESIGNED TO PREVENT AGGRRESSION. It may be undesirable, but it is not aggressive in itself. If you never remove food from your dog he may learn that even growling is not necessary.

If a dog learns that you always provide food and more food or bones and more bones then he is unlikely to guard his food at all.

If you have confirmed food guarder and do not feel confident to try any of the above, then just feed your dog in another room, where he will not be disturbed. At least this way, the food guarding behaviour is not likely to deteriorate.

If your dog regularly guards things or is over protective of his food, toys or other items, and you don’t feel that anything in this document can help, then GET HELP from someone and soon. Unwanted behaviours rarely just “go away” of their own accord, but they are, very often, very easy to resolve once proper understanding is brought to the situation.

If you want to understand more, have a look at the clip from my DVD on my website link removed. This DVD is no longer commercially available (though the website needs updating to reflect this) PLEASE DO NOT ATTEMPT TO ORDER THIS DVD.

This document was produced by Denise Mcleod of CaDeLac Dog Training.

Copyright CaDeLac Dog Training
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Blu
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12-08-2010, 12:58 PM
Originally Posted by ClaireandDaisy View Post
Great response from Jackbox.
TBH I was slightly gobsmacked when you said your dad tried to drag a confirmed biter out from under a bed. Not something I`d do. If a dog is hiding, I`d assume he`s scared and leave him alone, personally.
Please, if he`s hiding, don`t confront him. What else can he do but bite?
He sounds like a very stressed dog. A behaviourist might be able to help, but make sure they have proper qualifications, not a franchise.
He is a man So has to act Mr Tough trying to prove a point that he can 'win'

We hide everything that we can but sometimes you just think 'just leave it there a min surely he won't take it' but he does

Will have a read at the article thanks. We know none isn't his fault because of where he came from it's probaly all in his breeding and the grooming thing.. I think he's been hit at the groomers and about 90% of the attacks is out of fear.

He has such a nice temprement otherwise and today has been fine so far. Putting boxes etc under the bed to block it until we can afford a new one. In dads house he won't touch a thing because he has nowhere to hide in there.
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