changed my mind

Training I use with my dogs is 'Treat them as I want them to treat me '

My dogs are my no means the most intelligent dogs but they all sit, stay, lie down and recall << All of that is a struggle for Molly, Milo does all that plus roll over and barks to 'what do good boys say?' Abra does what the others do when they are all together but get him alone and his training is great fun and he is soo obediant and tbh I haven't done any set training with him or the other 2

I guess we work well as a team together ...or family as I prefer to say.

E,collars just make me think , if you put one on me I'd do what you tell me , but not because I wanted to. I don't want my dogs forced into what they don't want to do and I just want well behaved dogs that can maybe show off a bit which I've been extremely lucky in getting

So lets get this right.

You said YOU HAVE NO EXPERIENCE OF SHEEPDOG TRAINING. Fair enough, nothing wrong with that.

You then go on to tell us how you WOULD train a sheepdog with an ecollar.

Why not just train a dog the way thousands and thousands of hugely successfull people have trained before, for thousands of years - why use an ecollar at all, when there clearly is no need?

Anyone who starts out considering how they would train a dog in a new sphere and always considers using an ecollar, is in my view, a very very weak trainer indeed. Surely you are admitting that you can not get by without one?

The more you write the more credence you lose.

WW
Bolt just means run in usa gundog stuff, as in ''my dog bolts after deer'' its just terminology.

Jb ect
I've never denied e colalr is the easiest way to do certain things. Both for the owner and the dog.

Dm

I know nothing about sheepdogs, however you presented me with a scenario were trainers are trying to use e collars and not having much success. I (as someone who uses e collars) suggested a way of using e collars in that circumstance that would have more succes. Btw what's your opinion of my suggstion?

Rune ect

The programe on tonight seems to suggest the following
'' Battersea Dogs and Cats Home said it had no choice but to destroy 2,815 animals - of which 1,931 were healthy - because they were unsuitable to rehome ''


Adam

are you sugesting that they could be saved with e collar training but not with positive training

Sad to say but I think you will find there is far more to it than that
If there are more dogs than homes then a rescue has to consider that a dog needing behaviour modification for issues will take up kennel space for a larger amount of time
Even a 'quick fix' method you would still have to spend time with the dog to make sure you thought it was 'fixed'
added to that a rescue would have huge legal problems rehoming a dog with a bite history
so although it is possible that many of these dogs could be rehabilitaded it would be at the expense of several more easily rehomed dogs whos spaces it would be taking up

Its oh so easy to suggest that proper training could save these dogs - but the sad real fact is that dogs have to die because we breed to many, and someoen has to make the heartbreaking decision

I still want to know what shock collars can accomplish that positive training can't. No one seems to be able to answer that one.

so, so bored now........................
This thread has strayed so far from the original topic, and it goes round and round and round and round.
Enough, already.

No, unfortunately it was very clear the dog was being pulled out of a place it had run to, to hide....
No doubt about it, if only there was.


Wys
x

I really don't think they can, and don't believe they can, at all.

The guy Ulf who was on here a while ago, and who clearly had experience and a very open mind, and does dog sports and so on, decided they could not accomplish anything you can't with positive training.

I think part of the problem is that some who support shock collars tend to be very old fashioned trainers to start with and have an old fashioned mindset. So force is what they do.

Also biologically, men (and it's often men who use shock collars) have evolved to not notice the little things in body language etc that women do. This isn't meant to be sexist, it's fact. You will see women using the collars, but no so many... it's usually the men who get very aggro in their support (someone mentioned LC - very like him, aggro, and shouts loudest and longest )

Of course, you get some men who are against their use too,

Wys
x

That's been my guess. And anything they THINK can be accomplished with shock that can't be with positive training would be quickly debunked by everyone here. So they just ignore it. Because they have no answer.