Labman, I think its about time you shared where you get your information from! I get mine from the best place matey, the vets! I also read things and listen to what others say, digest it and then form my own opinion... I also don't lock 12 week old puppies in a cage for hours at a time without water, so they can't socialise but hey, that is another thread!

Would you really Labman such a hypocritical statement from someone who advocates shutting a 7 week old puppy in a crate for 16 hours day on mesh without water (and before you say you have been misquoted try checking your previous posts, I will post links to them if you wish ! ).
Tell us please how did the poor unfortunate puppies in your care receive socialisation?

Are you talking about yourself again Labman? You are the only one here I know of who sticks to some outdated manual from the 1991 and believes in subjecting puppies to outdated and bizarre practises which are more suited to a site for sadists .

Most vets I have spoken to who put the welfare of dogs before making a quick buck out of early spaying (excluding rescues who spay early as a matter of course) say it is more beneficial for a dog or bitch to reach maturity before being spayed and neutered for a whole variety of reasons.

I wouldn't expect you to understand this as animal welfare is clearly a low priority on your list.

Apologies to any new members, I don't normally speak this way to another member but in the case of Labman I make an exception.
Having found people here don't agree with with his cruel and outdated methods he posts to cause trouble whenever he can and has been banned from a number of sites as a troublemaker.

I agree with Labman, I have heard of this being done early in the USA.

http://www.americanhumane.org/protec...neutering.html

Came across this interesting article:

http://www.caninesports.com/SpayNeuter.html

I got Bailey at 5 and a half months old and he had already been castrated. I wasn't impressed and my dad is convinced the problems that we went throughand I have had to spend so much time and effort (not to mention money) sorting stem from this action being completed before he was mature. I will never know now, but that is my only experience of a dog who had been castrated so early.

Hi WW I think you are missing something here,
the quote states..
..it says 'can', not when is the best time for the benefit of a dogs health and welfare, it is talking about when is the best time to spay and neuter to prevent unwanted puppies.

Most of the people here on this site have enough intelligence to prevent their dogs from getting mating before they are spayed/neutered, we are not all idiots and if allowing a dog to reach maturity before it is spayed or neutered benefits our dogs we will do it !

My own vets state that early spaying in large breeds can lead to among other things urinary incontinence.
As far as I am concerned the health and welfare of my dogs is paramount not sticking to guidelines produced for the benefit of those who can't care for their dogs properly. I have been repeatedly told by vets that all things considered the best time to spay my bitches (a small breed which matures early) is after the first season between seasons.

Not yet read the whole thread, but I understand that htis is becoming commonplace with breeders of almost every breed aklthough obviously not every breeder... I think it is despicable personally, but I have heard that some dogs are being neutered at 6 weeks old - the reasoning being that the dogs recover quicker and are not aware of the wound so don't lick it etc. I know for a fact that it is harder to operate on tiny dogs so neutering puppies must be even more difficult at such a young age; I don't feel that they are fully developed at such a young age and we do not know the long-term effects of such procedures at this young age. How can some vets agree to this when the majority recommend not neutering until at least 18 month? It beggers belief!

i saw a programme about a rescue in america, and they went around the local residents spaying and neutering any dogs and cats those owners wanted it done, and they were getting done as young as 12 weeks.

Whilst I certainly don't support the spay or neutering of young puppies I do kind of support the shelters and animal rescue doing it in free clinics.

I live in the US (originally from the UK) and there are so many many many unwanted dogs in this country, the shelters are rammed full, and so if that is what it takes to make sure dogs don't breed then I think it is the right thing to do.

To the person who said that everyone on this forum is sensible and won't allow their dogs to breed - I agree, BUT the majority of dog owners over here are not that intelligent, their dogs don't get walked are shut in the back yard and get out and mate!! so to me - spay and neuter ASAP!

Just my opinion mind you - my dog was spayed at 9 months.

Our last dog was spayed before we picked her up from the rescue centre....she was coming up to six months and our vet thought that was too early!!! Never mind three months His concern was that an early operation might cause problems in later life, such as incontinence because of an immature vagina, but fortunately that never happened.

However I do think that she never really knew what she was genderwise and she did have some personality problems