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Ben Mcfuzzylugs
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17-06-2010, 09:04 PM
Yup, but now the judges are saying in their breifing that if the dog goes back on you are to leave the ring!! Which I think is OK for higher grades but it was rubbish for a poor wee grade 1 with an inexperienced dog
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Tassle
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17-06-2010, 09:09 PM
Originally Posted by Ben Mcfuzzylugs View Post
Yup, but now the judges are saying in their breifing that if the dog goes back on you are to leave the ring!! Which I think is OK for higher grades but it was rubbish for a poor wee grade 1 with an inexperienced dog
I'm surprised they can say that.....but it has always been judges discretion that eliminations sometimes have to leave the ring (especially if theres a lot to get through)
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rune
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17-06-2010, 09:48 PM
Originally Posted by Ben Mcfuzzylugs View Post
I think its cos there are different training methods out there now more people are doing them again
Its easy to loose contacts any way you teach them - I have seen quite a lot of dogs eliminated and ejected from the ring for the dogs reversing back into the 2o2o - judges are really geting strict on that now
We started many years ago running them and it doesn't work for long--especially with fast collies etc.

One of the best methods I saw was Steve Seale who used to use another person to reinforce the wait on the contact---then when the judge came close to check the dog got the contact as it thought that was its reinforcement. He was a good trainer!

A lot of people are clicking a foot touch at the bottom of the contact now----probably what i'd do now. I had a conversation recently with a friend who works top grade with several dogs and she is going to retrain one of them this winter and try the clicking.

rune
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Jfk
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17-06-2010, 11:01 PM
Originally Posted by Tassle View Post
I'm surprised they can say that.....but it has always been judges discretion that eliminations sometimes have to leave the ring (especially if theres a lot to get through)
I've obviously always been lucky as I've never been asked to leave the ring if my dog accidently overpowers the contact and steps back on it. If he doesn't correct himself I always put him back on and then ask the judge if they want me to leave, as yet never had to do so. However last year in a qualifier he overpowered the contact and laid on the floor at the base of the aframe without touching it. We were eliminated and so were others who did the same. Luckily my trainer is somewhat forthright and later asked the judge on what grounds he did this, he had no answer why. Interesting!
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Ben Mcfuzzylugs
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17-06-2010, 11:14 PM
Hmm that dosent sound like an E to me - 5 faults but not an E
Judges get it wrong sometimes too - sometimes in our favour - I am sure last year Ben was only not getting faulted on some contacts cos of his fluffy tail (mind you it dosent say a foot has to touch the contact does it?? )
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CLMG
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18-06-2010, 06:26 AM
Glad you had fun at training H you think twirling on the A frame is scary, wait until Zena does it on the dog walk (hopefully for your nerves she never will) it doesn't happen very often, but whenever I see a dog do it, I have to hold my breath

As far as contacts go, we have had to teach Jack 2 on 2 off, as his contacts were non existent where Chris teaches, they teach 2 on 2 off, then wait for a release command before moving on, so the dogs with dodgy contacts can be held there a bit longer, and those with good contacts can be released almost instantly and eventually after their contact command and the handle knows the contact has been got they can release them so turning it into a running contact.

What I like about where Chris teaches, and the way Chris is being taught, is that all the dogs are individuals and different ways may suit different dogs, no one way is right or wrong

There's a gorgeous Lurcher that Chris is teaching at the moment, and his problem is his up contacts on the A Frame, when left to his own devices he can leap to about 12-18 inches from the top of A but he is getting there

Going to the E for going back on a contact after leaving the equipment, I thought it would have been an Elimination as the dog has gone back onto the equipment after leaving it, thus doing the wrong course, which is an E, well, that's what I've always believed it to have been
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Tassle
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18-06-2010, 08:24 AM
Originally Posted by CLMG View Post
Glad you had fun at training H you think twirling on the A frame is scary, wait until Zena does it on the dog walk (hopefully for your nerves she never will) it doesn't happen very often, but whenever I see a dog do it, I have to hold my breath

As far as contacts go, we have had to teach Jack 2 on 2 off, as his contacts were non existent where Chris teaches, they teach 2 on 2 off, then wait for a release command before moving on, so the dogs with dodgy contacts can be held there a bit longer, and those with good contacts can be released almost instantly and eventually after their contact command and the handle knows the contact has been got they can release them so turning it into a running contact.

What I like about where Chris teaches, and the way Chris is being taught, is that all the dogs are individuals and different ways may suit different dogs, no one way is right or wrong

There's a gorgeous Lurcher that Chris is teaching at the moment, and his problem is his up contacts on the A Frame, when left to his own devices he can leap to about 12-18 inches from the top of A but he is getting there

Going to the E for going back on a contact after leaving the equipment, I thought it would have been an Elimination as the dog has gone back onto the equipment after leaving it, thus doing the wrong course, which is an E, well, that's what I've always believed it to have been
Yep - that was my understanding.
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rune
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18-06-2010, 08:32 AM
Originally Posted by Jfk View Post
I've obviously always been lucky as I've never been asked to leave the ring if my dog accidently overpowers the contact and steps back on it. If he doesn't correct himself I always put him back on and then ask the judge if they want me to leave, as yet never had to do so. However last year in a qualifier he overpowered the contact and laid on the floor at the base of the aframe without touching it. We were eliminated and so were others who did the same. Luckily my trainer is somewhat forthright and later asked the judge on what grounds he did this, he had no answer why. Interesting!
Out of interest do you remember who the judge was?

rune
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Ben Mcfuzzylugs
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18-06-2010, 09:43 AM
Originally Posted by CLMG View Post


Going to the E for going back on a contact after leaving the equipment, I thought it would have been an Elimination as the dog has gone back onto the equipment after leaving it, thus doing the wrong course, which is an E, well, that's what I've always believed it to have been
Yup its an E if you clear the equipment and go back to it, but having to leave the ring for someone at their first show who dosent want to loose their contacts in a show environment - thats a bit harsh
I know plenty of lower grade dogs who are lured right tru their weaves - that could be considered training in the ring too and should be asked to leave the ring

The other example tho was the dog totaly missed the contacts and lay down after the obsticle - no going back to it, just a missed contact really
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CLMG
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18-06-2010, 10:15 AM
I agree Ben Mc. for a newbie to have to leave the ring is very harsh, and something I've not witnessed before, thank goodness, all the judges that I've seen have been very good, if they realize the dog is having a problem, they will (if the dog has been E'd) go and lend a hand, like holding the end of the fabric tunnel up for them

I saw one judge at a show (can't remember the judge or show) who was putting her hand up for 5 faults on contacts, even when the dogs had clearly got their contacts, the only reason I could see was that the dogs were coming of the side of the equipment instead of running straight on then turning, this was a 1-3 class.

I guess different judges have different idea and different interpretations of the rules
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