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Location: Australia
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,032
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Speed of training, management is a short term solution. Many dogs are in the situation wereby there gone if an improvment isn't seen, you can do a quick fix with an e collar (all in one day) which I will do when neccassary.
Situations include, predatory behaviour, recall, pulling, dog and people aggression, extreme fear issues (thats more like join up). My criteria for use is. '' other methods have been tried and failed, the dogs welfare or life is comprimised ''
Wysiwyg has said a lot of what I would have put so will try not to repeat it and hopefully it will make my post shorter, but nothing is for sure
Originally Posted by
Adam Palmer
Monty Roberts. His technique is based on negative reinforcement. The horse is uncomfortale when driven away and made comfortable when it gives off the appeasing signals and comes into him. His main training tool is a dually halter that tightens when pressure is applied. This is negative reinforcment. His joinup technique uses nr to make the horse want to be with him. He is a very good trainer.
This is getting a bit off topic (but I started it
) The dually halter (similar to other halters) are kinder than normal halters and designed to keep away from the soft part of their muzzle, but like any from of halter wear can be abused, the person at the end of the rope is at fault not the equipment (no different that a collar and lead on a dog). For join up, you can call it NR if you like but there is no physical pain for the horse they are made uncomfortable by body signals not pain, or struggling, they are free to understand what behaviour is wanted without physical pain. Unlike old method that involve hobbling and much crueler methods.
Agree he is a good trainer but not without his critics either.
Originally Posted by
Adam Palmer
wysiwig/emma and studies. and videos
If the study does't look at the use of the tool the same way I use it it is irrelavent. The same as a study which looked at the effect of hitting the dog with a lead would be irrelavent. I don't use a lead like that, I don't use an e collar like that.
- You say you researched them but not on studies, what did you use as your basis for researching them for a year?
- You do use them in the same way, you use the shock mode, that is the same! So what is so different to you using them and others using them
Adam you still havent answered
- With more consistency, effort, time and understanding some determined dog breeds, do you not think e-collars would not need to be used?
- You say that e-collars are no harsher than many things to control human behaviour, so according to your theory they could correct children's behaviour quicker than verbal reprimands, so why not on humans?
If death is the next step if they do what they are doing, you can not with any certainty fix them the same day, so measures need to be taken to keep their dog safe no matter what method you use. What type of discussions do you have with the owners??
- In what situations do you see them as fit for use? and what situations unsuitable?
-Please explain who they work if they don't as you say cause any pain or discomfort, then what are the dogs stopping their behaviour for?
- I think if people are going to use them they should be able to admit to the truth of them, they are collars that emit an electrical pulse and causes pain to some level on the dog. The only people they are fooling are themselves. I even read a person who uses them to use words other than 'shock' collars so you can manipulate peoples perception of the