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Brundog
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11-02-2010, 08:23 PM
Originally Posted by wolfdogowner View Post
Unfortunately I think you do need accurate statistics in order to fight a ban. These breed specific laws were created in a heat of the moment situation and with out much properly gathered and accurate information. In order to make progress in changing them effectively you need to be able to prove their ineffectiveness or the fact that they may target the wrong breeds or wrong people.

It is obvious from the details of fatal dog attacks that they often occur in similar circumstances: it is whole package that needs to be addressed; people involved, type of dog involved and circumstance.

I suspect that the Staffie has been a victim of fashion to a great extent. Some dogs go through phases of being fashionable based on image rather than any rational interest in the animal itself. I know far too many cases where this has (and will again) happened and would agree that a tough ownership test would help weed out the casual fanciers and a really tough breeders test to keep things in order. This would be a priority before considering reducing the ban laws.
I have to disagree with that I dont believe that the staffie is fashionable or certainly not anymore. Sadly i think now people have realised that Staffies arent really any good as "hard" dogs have now moved on to crossing them with other things, and either abandon, neglect or in the most extreme cases kill their Staffies so they dont have to deal with them anymore.

They arent fashionable for the right reasons, and ONLY a dog ownership test will allow that to change. If its not Staffies it will be another breed and i dont want the same thing to happen to any other breed.
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wolfdogowner
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11-02-2010, 08:39 PM
Originally Posted by Brundog View Post
I have to disagree with that I dont believe that the staffie is fashionable or certainly not anymore. Sadly i think now people have realised that Staffies arent really any good as "hard" dogs have now moved on to crossing them with other things, and either abandon, neglect or in the most extreme cases kill their Staffies so they dont have to deal with them anymore.

They arent fashionable for the right reasons, and ONLY a dog ownership test will allow that to change. If its not Staffies it will be another breed and i dont want the same thing to happen to any other breed.
Many tough image breeds are useless which is why I see no reason to allow the introduction of some of the really tough dogs to the UK.

The dog owner test needs to be really carefully constructed to weed out potential trouble makers and not to penalise genuine dog lovers. I think this will be very difficult to do. As has been seem with football hooligans; some organisers are lawyers by day and thugs at the weekend...
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johnderondon
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11-02-2010, 10:29 PM
Originally Posted by wolfdogowner View Post
As we are on statistics: what are the numbers?
Nobody knows because nowhere keeps (or kept) centralised records and even if they did they would not include dogs like Cassey, Missey or Annie or others on the link I provided whose owners euthanised the dogs themselves rather than subject them to further suffering.
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johnderondon
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11-02-2010, 10:33 PM
Originally Posted by wolfdogowner View Post
Unfortunately I think you do need accurate statistics in order to fight a ban.
Fortunately for the Dutch their government was more rational than many and has repealed BSL based on the evidence such as it is and a healthy dose of common sense.
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wolfdogowner
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11-02-2010, 10:36 PM
Originally Posted by johnderondon View Post
Fortunately for the Dutch their government was more rational than many and has repealed BSL based on the evidence such as it is and a healthy dose of common sense.
The Dutch would But this doesn't sound too liberal, is it out of date?

"There are restrictions as to what breed of dog can be owned in the Netherlands, this is due to the potentially dangerous nature of some breeds.

While the Pit bull and some dangerous cross-breeds are banned, certain other pure bred dogs are allowed but must be muzzled and leashed in public: Rottweiller, Argentinian Dogo, Brazilian Fila, Mastino Italiana, and American Staffordshire Terrier."
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johnderondon
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12-02-2010, 01:56 AM
Originally Posted by wolfdogowner View Post
The Dutch would But this doesn't sound too liberal, is it out of date?

"There are restrictions as to what breed of dog can be owned in the Netherlands, this is due to the potentially dangerous nature of some breeds.

While the Pit bull and some dangerous cross-breeds are banned, certain other pure bred dogs are allowed but must be muzzled and leashed in public: Rottweiller, Argentinian Dogo, Brazilian Fila, Mastino Italiana, and American Staffordshire Terrier."
Out of date, I think.


http://66.102.9.132/search?q=cache:l...&ct=clnk&gl=uk
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wolfdogowner
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12-02-2010, 08:04 AM
Originally Posted by johnderondon View Post
Out of date, I think.


http://66.102.9.132/search?q=cache:l...&ct=clnk&gl=uk
I couldn't make that link work, but found the news here: http://www.expatica.com/nl/news/loca...-bull-ban.html

But not everyone is happy: http://www.dogsbite.org/blog/2010/01...ice-other.html
Interesting statistics at the top of page. Of course its pro Breed specific legislation.
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johnderondon
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12-02-2010, 03:15 PM
Originally Posted by wolfdogowner View Post

But not everyone is happy: http://www.dogsbite.org/blog/2010/01...ice-other.html
Interesting statistics at the top of page. Of course its pro Breed specific legislation.
Those stats are reminiscent of the Clifton Report. I can't be bothered to list the errors in methodology.
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Emma
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13-02-2010, 03:11 AM
Originally Posted by wolfdogowner View Post
Simply because they are just numbers. I explained all this in my previous post.
Because statistics are just numbers
What constitutes a Dog attack? If in 2008 the statistics state there were 795 attacks on people; were these all near fatal? Or were they over exuberant dogs that jumped up and licked a stranger? Both of these have made the papers as dog attacks.
ummmm never seen an article on a stranger getting licked by a dog, must read different papersv
My collie knocked me down when I was 9 and I cut my knee: hositalised due to dog attack?
hospitalised for a cut knee?? If you think about it a bit I am sure you can answer your own question of if it is a dog attack or not
All I see are numbers and an argument that clearly is heading towards the greater restriction of dog ownership. Do you honestly think that increasing the dog licence from £5 to £12.50 will stop dogs attacking? Will an extra £7.50 put of the 'hard' element from owning a dog?
nope, I think it shows that dog laws are ineffective I am sure there is some definition of dog attack
"Council dog wardens enforce the rules on dog licensing, collect stray and unwanted dogs and provide dog pound facilities, investigate reports of dog attacks" so I am guessing wardens would have a definition??!!


Originally Posted by Brundog View Post
just wanted to agree wholeheartedly with this post, I am totally for a dog ownership test, and if they went as far to do this would suggest they do one for having a baby too !!! as it seems that the idiots who get dogs and mistreat them or neglect them tend to do the same with their children !!!!
I agree with it on paper but practically how is it going to work? The cost would be too great and the ones who could afford the test after paying for all involved in dog ownership tests would end up being a wealthy few. The limited restrictions on dog ownership now are ineffective due to cost of manning the laws let alone the cost of controlling dog ownership tests
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Emma
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13-02-2010, 03:26 AM
Originally Posted by wolfdogowner View Post
I couldn't make that link work, but found the news here: http://www.expatica.com/nl/news/loca...-bull-ban.html

But not everyone is happy: http://www.dogsbite.org/blog/2010/01...ice-other.html
Interesting statistics at the top of page. Of course its pro Breed specific legislation.
I give you stats, you consider it just numbers but you find one and it is more than just number, how is yours less fatally floored than mine
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