Thanks everyone for your opinions.
I am certainly not going to defend CM at all but I would just like to say that I think these kind of shows could be better but have their place and uses.
I used to work as a receptionist at a vets (fair few years ago) and it is quite scary how many people used to blame the behaviour of the dog on the dog itself. Most of the tv shows I have seen do seem to make the point over and over again that it mostly the owners fault not the dogs. If that helps a handful of people stop being angry and frustrated with their dogs and go out and find help then surely thats a good thing?

Also at the vets we used to get lots of calls saying the dog was so badly behaved that it needed pts but this would often turn out to be a house training issue or lack of exercise. Once someone has made the decision to pts it is almost impossible to get them to seek help else where so many times we ended up rehomeing these poor dogs or finding rescue places. Some vets wouldnt go to this trouble either which is even scarier!

As i said in earlier post... I had lots of problems with my girl in the first couple of years and did end up getting advice from Jan Fennels book (as well as various trainers) but this seemed to be the only thing she responded to. I never saw what I was doing as cruel in anyway as the only aspects of it where making sure she knew she wasnt responsible for the humans and not in charge. We did this by making sure we entered and left in front of her and due to one of her problems being separation anxiety we made a point of ignoring her for 5mins when we got in. After that she was given fuss/walks/food/water/cuddles/playtime the same as before but everything became more about when we wanted to do it not when she jumped all over us demanding attention which is just bad manners anyway.
She was obviously relieved that the pressure was off and she didnt have to worry about where we were when we went to the shop anymore and I would say 85% of the problems went away after a couple of weeks of doing these things.
I obviously ignored some of the books advice but picked out the things I thought would help.

All the trainers I spoke to at the time could help me with sit, down etc and the jumping up but they all agreed that separation anxiety was alot harder to deal with (as you arent there!) anyway Im sure things are very different now but there will still be alot of people out there that just dont know anything about dogs and training so these programs may just be the lightbulb they need to make things better for their dog.

Or a lot worse

In the park yesterday a woman dragged a young pup past my dogs on a tight lead saying - leave them alone!. Then when it had gone past and had stopped trying to get to meet and play with my dogs so her lead had gone slack she did the psht thing and jabbed it with her stiff fingers.
What on earth will the puppy make of that?

Unfortunatly all this dom based training from what I have seen basicaly end up with the dogs being punished more than they would have been before

Suddenly because your dog dosent recal, sit, or even if it isnt toilet trained or whatever this is no longer just a training issue - not the dog is challanging you for leadership and has to be put in its place

Its a nice theory that lots of people grasp onto but it misses a far easier point - if your dog dosent come back its cos you havent taught it properly how to, if it goes to the loo in the house its either not toilet trained, something has stressed it, you have been out for too long or its ill

I think many people underestimate the sheer repetion needed for training. They do it a couple of times and assume the dog `knows`. The dog doesn`t. It takes many many repeats to instill a new behaviour. You`re not giving knowledge like teaching a child dates, you`re putting new pathways in the brain I suppose.

Watch this and then tell me he's a force for the good in dog training....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iUeD...eature=channel

sorry- followed link and it just went to general u tube page?

Sorry might be something to do with Dogsey's offsite linking, will try again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iUeD...eature=channel

A lot more for me!

I think you will find on the majority of dog savvy forums in the USA, oh and by the way not all Americans are lazy, they think pretty much of him as the dog savvy members of dogsey do - basically that either he is a prat who just wants air time to down right ruddy abusive to dogs.

No you dont but that wouldnt make for sensationalised tv would it?

Exactly editing could make me like the greatest trainer in the world - which I sure aint! But again you are right many people are now coming to see just what this man is all about and it isnt rehabilitating dogs thats for sure!

Merlins Mum I have seen this and the link works but I have no wish to see it again - its disgusting and I cannot understand anyone who condones this.

Am beginning to see now how what CM calls calm submission, is actually the dog in shutdown........