How can my statement be ridiculous, you're the one who has openly stated that you reprimand your dog for behaving like a dog not me! You said you do not allow your dog to growl or communicate in a 'negative' manner to another dog. That means you are suppressing your dogs natural behaviour. Have you ever thought that this maybe why he still has issues with other dogs because he isn't allowed to communicate effectively with them for fear of being told off?

Firstly this has nothing to do with violence but Gnashers own admission that she reprimands her dog for displaying 'negative' responses. This means that she is suppressing her dogs own ability to be able to communicate effectively with it's own species. Suppressing natural behaviour, rather than modifying it to an acceptable level, does not resolve the issues that dog has but rather keeps them hidden. You just have to hope that they day doesn't come when these suppressed behaviours suddenly burst out.
Even if we take the 'pack leader' view then show me where pack leaders in any species constantly prevent others in the group from displaying their dislike, fear, distress. It simply doesn't happen.
Becky

Shocked to say the least......

Nat Geo (tv channel) was just advertising DW, and it showed a medley of clips....
One shocked me lots....
It was a small dog, sat on someones knee on the left. Someone else was sat in the middle, then CM on the right.
CM said "I'm going to take the bone" (or something similar).
He tried to take the bone, the dog went for him, and he reached over and quickly grabbed it's collar/harness, and literally threw the dog on the floor!!

True, Tassle, and you are saying nothing that OH doesn't say to me regularly ! However, when you have a very large dog who looks a bit like a wolf, circumspection comes into practice. Many people take one look at Tai, and Hal before him, and think "heck, it's going to eat me AND my dog". Although I absolutely know that I can trust Tai, he would never draw blood or hurt another dog, even one that was attacking him, unless he absolutely had to to save his life, the owner of the other dog does not know this. I have already described how Tai will make bloodcurdling sounds and "pin" an aggressor, but will never ever inflict any injury whatsoever, and this is fine and dandy when he is under under attack, but what I will not and cannot allow is Tai displaying such behaviour for no better reason than he doesn't like his tackle investigated! This is just not allowed by me, he has to tolerate having his credentials checked out, and if he grumbles a protest, he will get reprimanded.

But your right too about SE, he would say I am not being fair.

And there was me trying to be polite and on me best behaviour n'all !!!

Becky, yet again it is clear that either you are misreading your posts, or I am not being very clear (prob the latter as I do tend to waffle on so ). Tai is absolutely the best, friendliest most socialised dog that I have ever had the privilege to own, including my beloved Hal who was pretty well balanced, but not as good as Tai it has to be said. I thought I had previously explained how Tai is frequently subjected totally unprecedented attacks by other males, usually entire ones. The bitches make a bee line for him, the dogs tend to attack him. It was like this with Hal too. We describe Tai in jest as the Brad Pitt of the dog world ! Tai is a very well balanced, well socialised dog. HE ABSOLUTELY DOES NOT HAVE ANY ISSUES WITH OTHER DOGS !! He did have one issue - the infamous black labrador, but that has been sorted now and Tai just ignores him (they met on Friday evening in the pub).

Although my husband disagrees with me, I don't like to think of other dog owners being afraid of Tai - they prejudge him purely by his looks (vicious wolf !!) - so if he takes objection to another dog invading his space and emits one of his ferocious sounding rumbles, then I step in and tell him off. Actually, it is a pretty rare occurrence now ... probably because I have taken this robust attitude with him. He is far more equable with other males than he was when we first got him, so I can't be doing too much wrong.

regarding bum sniffing and reacting to it: i have a 15 week old puppy who is learning some of the most important lessons of her life from other dogs.

she thinks everyone is her friend but, she stands and lets all strange dogs sniff her. she reacts differently depending on their reaction on sniffing her. she either gets the green light to go ahead and play with them or, she gets told to scram. she reacts accordingly and i feel that either message holds equal importance in her socialisation.

i also have a rescue collie who clearly was never allowed to socialise when he was a pup. he just about tolerates a polite hello now, but he looks anxious until the other dog realises he's not up for small talk and walks away. otherwise he shows his teeth and growls as a clear indicator he isn't enjoying this.

i want my puppy to understand not every dog wants to play and that she should respect those who don't. only her learning vital lessons at this age, from other dogs, will give her the power to recognise the signals.

i believe that to inhibit or interfere with this behaviour, is dangerous and completely detrimental to a dogs balanced state of mental health.

How true !! Now I am working full time, OH is doing the bulk of the exercising. He's had an op on his leg though, so I have been exercising Tai before and after work, and OH is just taking him out for a short walk at lunchtime. I don't believe he ever makes Tai follow any commands whilst out walking, but a weekend of me taking Tai out, he's back on form again. They go "off" very quickly, but come back on board again even quicker, so it's not really a problem as such, but does go to show I think that they really don't like all the obedience stuff, unlike a collie. They do it, but its all a bit of a bore I think for them.

When Tai is set upon or hassled by another dog and he growls back, I do stop him, for the reasons I have given above. It's no big deal, I only get between the attacker and him and "oi" him and use my body posture to show him I am displeased. There's no massive punishment involved, it is just an oi or a no, and that's the end of it. If the other dog is continuing to attack, I will block it with my hand and say no to him too, and if necessary I will hold Tai by the collar and keep him from eyeballing the other dog, whilst protecting him with my body. If there was a full blown attack I would allow Tai to defend himself of course, but really using the above diversionary tactics, it really isn't necessary. When Tai and Woody had their ding dong it took me completely by surprise, which was my fault, but one thing I will not do is wade in and separate seriously fighting dogs. One, I could get bitten, and two, I believe this winds the two adversaries up more than they are already. Much better to let them sort it out, although if the hose or a bucket of water is handy, this is an excellent way to separate them for a second or two, time enough for you to grab your dog and keep them apart.

I make plenty of mistakes, that's for sure. Tai swallowed a nectarine stone on Friday night. Stupid me, I had thrown the stone into the coal bucket, and of course he fetched it. He brought it across to me when I called him, and I told him to drop it. He started to do just that, but then changed his mind, and swallowed it! Everything seems to be OK so far, touch wood, but I am keeping a close eye on him. He is raw fed, so well used to digesting bone, but a hard fruit stone is a different kettle of fish ... totally my fault

I think that is alot more down to the way you motivateyour dog as opposed to what you actually do.

I have been at a class tonight, and Siren and Laf (Collie and Lab) were on the ceiling....loving every minuite, we were clicker raining, doing nose work, chasing food....indispersed with some walking nicely next to me - ignoring other dogs etc.

Every dog I have had with me has loved working, but I have made it fun. It is never a chore. (I have worked with a Ute as well )

Good points Lillypup. Tai is extremely well socialised and very rarely objects to either sex, or neuters, to investigate his potential ! However, of course, naturally, there is the very odd occasion when he doesn't, and will protest. Unless he is under attack, I'm sorry, but I will not allow him to growl threateningly. He is a very large dog, wolfy looking, and to many people, very alarming and scarey looking. He is in actuality a complete and utter softy, the gentlest dog I have ever had, despite his size. In today's political climate with the anti-dog brigade being very much to the fore, I just do not want him growling, unless in danger. When being threatened, he doesn't need to, he can look very menacing and threatening when he is doing his Beta Enforcer impression. He pulls himself up to his full height, goes as a stiff as a Guardsman outside Buckingham Palace, and his tail goes as aloft and as erect as is possible. He stands there motionless, not uttering a sound, and 99 times out of 100, the situation is diffused. He doesn't always do this, it depends on the threat I suppose. They see things of course that we don't.

Sorry Tassle, I didn't describe that very well. What I meant to say was that Tai is a very independent dog, and would much prefer not to have to "do obedience". But he does with equanimity (spelling?) and good nature.

We had a lovely game tonight in the garden in the evening sunshine, during which two tennis balls accidentally got deflated! He loves a game, loves chasing sticks and balls, and would definitely prefer to be doing this than having to keep being recalled ! Because northern breeds have such a bad reputation for recall (most unfairly in my opinion), I try very hard to make sure that Tai will always come when he's called. This way, if we are taken unawares by sheep that have escaped from their field, or chickens who have got out onto the set-aside, I can get him under control instantly before he makes that "break" into hunting mode.