where to start
not really sure if i should bother as i am pretty sure cheeky has me on ignore and gnasher has already admited that she posts some things just to wind people up and get a reaction
still there are more than just them reading this thread

cc
noone has said either of you are cruel to your dogs, just that some of cm's methods are cruel

gnasher
some northen breeds must have some level of bidability as they are able to be trained to work with people, sure you will have to find what motivates them

and many collies have to trust a person before they will work with them, a total one persons dog who go out of their way to ignore and avoide other people, many times i have seen dogs duck under peoples hands or just treat them like they do not exist. my ben will take commands from v few people and will often check in with me to see if he should do what they are asking

if your dog dosent do what you ask when you ask it it is not naughty, willful, aloof, independent, or anything, it has just not been properly trained in that situation

i think you and your dog would really find some aspects of positive training really rewarding because in the main it is about letting the dog use its brain to figure out how its actions can make you do the things it wants
ie
if i sit then the door opens, if i charge at the door it closes, so to make you open the door i will sit

no telling off, the dog hasnt been bad at any point, and the things they teach themselves they learn much faster

Hey Ya, LS I'm glad that you can see the good G has done with Tai, because she has followed alot of what the "antis" are against, pack theory/leadership and so on.

I think when this was discussed before some of us disagreed with Gnasher in that she doesn't use pack theory as such. Yes she believes in Alpha, but is happy to allow things a pack leader is not supposed to, according to the theory, such as let dogs on her bed So she kind of does her own thing, really

Wys
x

My, now there's a patronising statement if I heard one.


I take it you can categorically be certain all the trainers who frequent this board, they will never had a dog in their care, as one such as yours!

Considering the yrs and experience behind them, I am sure they have dealt with a difficult dog or two in their career.

Yet you seem to have more experience than them all put together with your dealings with one dog..... fascinating

Hey BenMcF, I certainly don't have you on ignore. There is only one person I have on "ignore" and it isn't anybody that I clash with. Just somebody that I can't be bothered to listen to, because they have nothing to say that I'm remotely interested in

And yes, I know that you are not saying that we are cruel I enjoy your posts and I always read them. I've obviously not replied in the past for you to think you are on ignore. I apologise for that but things move so fast on the CM threads that I don't always keep up (I'm usually nipping on and off the computer as it's summer hols and the kids are around all day). However, I have been accused of "kicking" my dogs on here before, purely because I follow CM - stupid I know - but it has been said

I think when this was discussed before some of us disagreed with Gnasher in that she doesn't use pack theory as such. Yes she believes in Alpha, but is happy to allow things a pack leader is not supposed to, according to the theory, such as let dogs on her bed So she kind of does her own thing, really

Wys
x

Oh, sorry Wys, that was a conversation I missed. I do think though that you don't have to stick to something 100% (as in allowing a dog on your bed cancelling out pack/alpha theory) to say that it's a theory you follow. It's a bit like saying you don't follow the "positive" theory if you shout at your dog on occasion. I'm sure Tai (well really I assume) doesn't go and get on G's bed when he feels like it. Presumably he goes there when G says he can and invites him.

I never allow dogs on beds or in bedrooms. They are human spaces in our house. However, I do allow them on the sofa, when I say they can. They even have their own comfy throws on the sofa for them to snuggle up with when they are allowed

where to start
not really sure if i should bother as i am pretty sure cheeky has me on ignore and gnasher has already admited that she posts some things just to wind people up and get a reaction
still there are more than just them reading this thread

cc
noone has said either of you are cruel to your dogs, just that some of cm's methods are cruel

gnasher
some northen breeds must have some level of bidability as they are able to be trained to work with people, sure you will have to find what motivates them

and many collies have to trust a person before they will work with them, a total one persons dog who go out of their way to ignore and avoide other people, many times i have seen dogs duck under peoples hands or just treat them like they do not exist. my ben will take commands from v few people and will often check in with me to see if he should do what they are asking

if your dog dosent do what you ask when you ask it it is not naughty, willful, aloof, independent, or anything, it has just not been properly trained in that situation

i think you and your dog would really find some aspects of positive training really rewarding because in the main it is about letting the dog use its brain to figure out how its actions can make you do the things it wants
ie
if i sit then the door opens, if i charge at the door it closes, so to make you open the door i will sit

no telling off, the dog hasnt been bad at any point, and the things they teach themselves they learn much faster

I would indeed Becky. Because he is MY dog and I expect that behaviour from him. He lives in my house and he abides by my rules, which are firm but fair. He knows these rules, I NEVER have to use force, and neither would I. I would NEVER pin him down, or physically restrain him in order to "allow" him to let another dog sniff his parts.

A very over the top analogy, but the point I am making that however unfair the order, my dog will obey ... he might be naughty at sitting first time at the kerb, or he might try it on when he is on the lead, but when the chips are down and I am ASKING (not ordering) him to not retaliate when an unsocialised dog is giving him a hard time, or indeed the other way round, when HE is giving an unsocialised dog a hard time, I can stop him from doing so before escalation occurs into something more serious. This is the equivalent to the discipline of the square bashing IMO.

In my next life, I'd like to be a dog owned by you Gnasher

You sound like a great, wonderful, caring owner, that provides everything that a dog needs and much more. The trouble is, the "antis" will never see that you and I are good dog owners, because they can't get past the "kicking" and "violence" theories they have attached to CM and his followers, to see that our dogs enjoy being part of a pack and are comfortable about being led by their pack leader. Discipline and leadership does not equal violence/abuse but you could talk until you're blue in the face, but I'm afraid you will never change some views here. Ten out of ten for trying Gnasher but I fear you are wasting your time