Well, my training is positive then because Tai gets plenty of rewards : they are just not titbit rewards ! He is praised when he has done good with a pat on the head or a stroke and a "good boy". I never use physical force; I do not call a gentle but firm short tug on the lead "force" if he has ignored my "sshh" when walking to heel. This doesn't happen very often, but happen it does, and if he ignores the verbal command, he gets a gentle but firm tug.

I have different noises for different things. Asking him to walk to heel a bit better, I will say "sshh", as described above. "Oi" is a bit more assertive ... I will say this if he has suddenly espied that the chickens have escaped out onto the set aside across the field. I will say "ah ah" when we are biking along the canals, and he has got very interested in a family of ducklings on the water. Top of the scale is a full blown bellow of a "NO" if we suddenly realise we are biking past a field of sheep - although they are very well fenced off along the canals, there is always the potential that such a large dog can jump over the hedge or fencing. I have and do use the Cesar "bite", I don't view that as negative at all, but very positive. I will use that when we are, say, in the pub with Tai and he espies his old enemy the Black Labrador from across the room - in this particular circumstance, usually an "oi" with an accompanying warning finger is not enough and I do not like to bellow in public, so a Cesar bite will be administered. He just lays his head back down and goes to sleep. Very positive, I would call that.

In the cold light of day Steven I am sure this will make sense, but I'm too tired to make sense of it right now. I shall read it at work tomorrow.

Humans didn't get together with wolves.... there is no fossil record that proves that. In fact today's wolves didn't exist back then. Wolves and dogs evolved from a common ancestor, not dogs came from wolves. Of that there is at least some fossil records to prove.

As for the hunting aid and free food. That is only half correct, ancestral dogs lived off the leftovers of humans, they contributed little to the 'hunting' especially when humans started to cultivate things such as cattle and crop.

Sorry, wasn't posting it directly for you to read, its just that since these were brought up, I'd thought I'd clarify a tad...just for general purposes.

Is it really hard to understand? I try so hard not to make it that way

During one programme (not sure if it's been shown in the UK)there is evidence of lack of oxygen in the dog.

The programme was concerning the dog "Shadow". After CM had "dealt" with him, the dog actually had an engorged penis. This is a physiological sign of oxygen deprivation and proves that CM does indeed partially strangle dogs at times during use of his methods.

Whatever the views, I wanted to put this on here because as far as I'm concerned it needs to be absolutely confirmed that he does do this - not just have them on a tight high up lead or anything - and it does seem that the evidence is there.



Wys
x

Blimey Syd must be deprived of oxygen on a regular basis cos he frequently has an engorged penis and he does it to himself without a lead in sight.

Thats probably excitement though, not fear and oxygen starvation.

lol
but to be fair,it IS a symptom of oxygen deprivation.......im sure you have heard of the strange 'sexsual practise' that some humans enjoy....not sure about dogs tho

Careful about your definitions of negative vs. positive. Techniques such as physical modelling a non-operant technique requires the owner to pull/push the dog to teach it what a command means however it is not a negative technique.

yes you are g,as is everyone now I might be shot down for this one.....i dont think you can compare s.e and cm,i also dont THINK s.e would adocate alot of the 'techniques' cm uses.whilst i do think he agrees with some of the 'ethos' as do alot of people but the ethos is not exclusive to c.m.imo.

But this is totally natural canine behaviour !! Not unfair at all IMO.

But this is totally natural canine behaviour !! Not unfair at all IMO.

Well, my training is positive then because Tai gets plenty of rewards : they are just not titbit rewards ! He is praised when he has done good with a pat on the head or a stroke and a "good boy".

That is positive reinforcement! well done, However that is NOT CM!!!!

I never use physical force; I do not call a gentle but firm short tug on the lead "force" if he has ignored my "sshh" when walking to heel. This doesn't happen very often, but happen it does, and if he ignores the verbal command, he gets a gentle but firm tug.

that is positive punishment, why not stop him going wrong to start with? and, it tells me your postive reinforcment Above ISNT enough for him, so a pat on the head from you is not enough for him to want to repeat the behaviour so in order to stop haveing to revert to the punishment you would need to up his reward to something he really values

I have different noises for different things. Asking him to walk to heel a bit better, I will say "sshh", as described above. "Oi" is a bit more assertive ... I will say this if he has suddenly espied that the chickens have escaped out onto the set aside across the field. I will say "ah ah" when we are biking along the canals, and he has got very interested in a family of ducklings on the water. Top of the scale is a full blown bellow of a "NO" if we suddenly realise we are biking past a field of sheep - although they are very well fenced off along the canals, there is always the potential that such a large dog can jump over the hedge or fencing.


I have and do use the Cesar "bite", I don't view that as negative at all, but very positive. you are right its positive punishment I will use that when we are, say, in the pub with Tai and he espies his old enemy the Black Labrador from across the room - in this particular circumstance, usually an "oi" with an accompanying warning finger is not enough and I do not like to bellow in public, so a Cesar bite will be administered. He just lays his head back down and goes to sleep. Very positive, I would call that.you are right positive punishment, so why not teach this very clever willing dog instead of having to nag him & correct him to "settle", thats not a stay, thats to settle there until I (thats you as pack leader) decide to leave?