Hi,
Thanks everyone for your imput.
Zane was neutered last year in July. Ellie was spayed at the end of April this year. Yiannis was neutered at the beginning of June this year. Seto is entire.
Seto was asleep under the computer table and Yiannis was aslepp behind the sofa (the one he hasn't eaten!) whn the attack happened. They were no where near Zane and Ellie.
The attack happened in the living room. Zane and Ellie were kind of in the middle (ish) when it happened and not close to me, Oscar or the other dogs. I was helping oscar choose a film to watch from the bookcase near the alcove.
Oscar knows to stay away form the dogs when they squabble, which hardly ever happens really but the poin tis, it does occasionally and he knows to either go out of the living room (or whatever room he's in if with the dogs) and eitehr into his playroom or upstairs - the dogs aren't allowed upstairs or in his playroom.
He's NEVER left alone with the dogs - EVER. So I'm always there should anything happen. If I go to the bathroom either the dogs go into the kitchen or outside if Oscar is in the living room or Oscar has to come upstairs with me and play in his bedroom for a couple of minutes.
When it happened I told Oscar to stand on the wooden shelf/bench part fothe fireplace that is inbuilt into the alcove and get as far into the corner as possible. I put 2 of the sofas covers in front of him so shoudl the dogs get near and snap (not at him directly because I know they wouldn't) they'd only snap the covers, not Oscar.
I would've like to have got him out of the room but I would have had to have got him past Zane and Ellie first and I didn't want him that close whilst they were fighting. So I thought it better for him to stay where he was. Thius way, they couldn't have got to him without going through me first.
The squabbles with toys happens rarely now. It happens when one of the dogs has something that another decides he/she wants. It usually lasts no more than a few seconds and usually now the dog who had the toy int he first place keeps it. Tehy've all learned that if they take a toy by force, it's taken off them and given back to the dog that had it in the first place. I usedf to have more problems when they had ore toys so I took abotu 2 thirds of the toys away. Now they do have some but only a few and the squables have reducewd by about 99%.
None of the dogs have ever shown any aggression, although Ellie did try to have a go at Murphy when he attacked Zane back in December. I stopped her and pulled her away and dealt with Murphy and Zane once I could get to them (zane had backed himself into the corner of the "den" they have. In a way it was nice to see that she'd defend Zane but no, she's never been aggressive.
They're all very sociable dogs with other dogs and people. Zane and Ellie have grown up together and the bond they have is (or was) unbreakable (or so I thought).
After the attack Zane allowed Ellie to lick his face and legs where he was bleeding. She licked him over and over and each time she aprocahed him since then it's been with her head down - almost as though she's waiting for something to happen.
I knwo we shouldn't humanise dogs' behaviour and I try very hard not to most of the time, but it's almost as though since then Ellie has been trying to make it up to Zane.
I kept a very close eye on them all last night. Seto and Yiannis spent the evening asleep, not taking a blind bit of notice of anyone.
Zane and Ellie, after a little bit of individual training tht I do each evening with them anyway, slept next to each other on the kitchen floor.
I haven't separated them because I thought it could cause more problems afterwards. I certainly wouldn't consider PTS as I don't feel there's a need. I would only consider rehoming if it happened again and I couldn't fix the problem - although I wouldn't rehome until I knew what the poblem was becuse I wouldn't want to put someone else in such a position. I've seen dogs fight before and have separated them. But most people haven't and it can be very frightening.
I think there is a definite reason for the attack, but I just can't see it. I've booked them into see the vet later today (separately of course).
I think that maybe there's a reason that I don't know yet adn maybe the heat and/or humiodity just made things worse. I don't think it was just because fo the heat that this happened. After all, it's been hot before and there haven't been any attacks. With the heat, my main problem is that I live in a metal house - so trying to keep it cool inside is almost impossible.
At the moment, I'm allowing the dogs to interact at home whilst I;m there. I'm always inbetween Ellie and the opther dogs. If I have to go out I'm ither taking her with me or taking her to my Mom's until I get back. I won't leave her alone with the boys.
It's just so out of character for her and that scares me more than the possibility of another attack. It means, as already stated, that it could be a medical problem and I don't want my dogs to be ill.It's really upsetting because I can't see a reason for it. If it was defninitely over toys, or food, or something I could see then I could deal with it. not knowing is making it really hard.
What makes it scary for me is the fact that she went for Zane's legs first. I know she had every intention of seriously hurting him but she's just not that sort of dog. People I've told so far who know my dogs don't believe me to begin with because Ellie has always been a very gently and loving dog - even when she kisses you with the poer of a bulldozer!
She already has lots of training, as do the GSDs but I'll increase it a bit. Recently becuse it's so hot they've not had their couple of hours in the middle of the dy in the park so I'll be increasing the exercise againnow it's cooled down - although a couple of days of not playing int he park shouldn't have made this happen I don't think.
I certtainly won't leave it and hope for the best. I am hoping it won't happen again but at the moment, Ellie doesn't have the opportunity of hurting Zane or anyone else at the moment. The only perosn she can get at if she wanted to do damage is me. Not the dogs and certainly not Oscar (although I know she wouldn't).
At the moment the antibiotics and painkillers (particuarly for Zane) seem to be knocking the dogs about and they're spending much fo their time asleep. So it's easy to deal with them at the moment. When they're both feeling better and jumping about like lunatics then I'll have my work cut out for me. Hopefully by then I'll have an answer/reason.
Thanx for all the advice and support. I'll post back when I've heard what the vet has to say. I just hope it's something simple I can deal with. It would be heartbreaking for all of us if Ellie had to be rehomed - particularly Oscar as she's his dog really. Although if it came to it I'd ask family and friends first f they could take her so ti wouldnt' be as though we weren't ever going to see her again. Still - that's speculating on something that may not happen yet.
Laura xx