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Location: Scotland
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 19,298
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06-06-2009, 02:28 PM
Originally Posted by Tassle 
Having worked with (and cured) many dogs with traffic chasing issues I find it odd that people feel the need to use these methods.
It would be interesting to see what methods these people had tried other than the e-collar.
In fact, we sold a collie to a farm locally and even though the farmer adores this dog he lets him run alongside his tractor and leaves him in the yard (loose) while he is inside the house and the dog has started chasing the postman's van etc. I have tactfully suggested he put the dog in his kennel/run when he cannot supervise him, but would be interested in hearing of successful methods of curing this behaviour.
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Location: uk
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 18,552
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06-06-2009, 03:40 PM
Originally Posted by Moobli
Ahh but you are all a bit *different* down South!
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Location: Cardiff, UK
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,033
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06-06-2009, 05:14 PM
Originally Posted by Gnasher
And I would rather have a living dog, than a dead dog Mish ! If that meant having to do something as extreme as getting an expert in the use of e-collars to come in and use one on my dog to save his life, then yes, I would do that. And so would you, and so would everyone else, I am absolutely sure of that. We all love our dogs and would do anything for them. We are not talking about electrocution here, just probably only a couple of mild buzzes to the neck, like a vibrating mobile phone, with most dogs. Mine, having a very high prey drive, admittedly may need something nearer to being painful, but IMO the end justifies the means.
And as a user of CM methods myself, as you know, I am very happy to say I have NEVER used any of those methods on my dog that you mention in your first paragraph, so please don't imply that I do.
Id prefer to have a dead dog that had had a brilliant life full of trust & patnership with me with 100s of happy memories.than a live scared robot with 15 years of bullying . I can honestly say that
Im NOT saying anyones dogs on here are Scared robots , but that is what CM produces imo, on his show.
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Location: UK
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 5,551
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07-06-2009, 07:16 AM
Originally Posted by Tassle
Humm - it would have to be a lot higher than that with most dogs.
We have an electric fence round the fields we walk in - if a dog gets on those it sure can react...does it stop it from doing it again...not always.
If it is to be done (and I disagree completely with it, as my view is that if we can keep toddlers away from snakes without using pain, them we can also do it for dogs, right?) then the dog has to learn not only about snakes visually but also scent and something else. Ie one shock may well not be enough and I believe is not trained in this way either by those who offer the snake aversion training.
There was an agility dog who immediately learnt to associate crowds with pain (because they were shocked on high as a group were training their dogs in this snake aversion system) and yet the poor animal still died from snake bite months later because the owners sadly put their faith in the training with shock collar.
I love my dogs and would never subject them to this because it can go wrong, and it can give false sense of security. I walk in the Forest where we have plenty of adders (which can kill although not often) and simply use vigilance and common sense and avoid certain areas.
Wys
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Location: UK
Joined: Jul 2004
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07-06-2009, 07:18 AM
Originally Posted by mishflynn
Losing a dog in any circumstances, should surely make you want MORE lovely positive happy times, not living with electric shocks,stringing up,kicking, sticking on prong collars, & pining, Losing a dog should make us all appreciate them more & make their life as AMAZING as possible, just how they do for us.
Id rather a minute of Joy than a hour of pain
Well said Mishflynn
Wys
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Location: UK
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07-06-2009, 07:24 AM
Originally Posted by Borderdawn
There was no life or death situation with Daddy, he used him as an example, there was no need at all whatsoever for the dog to be subjected to that collar as he was never going to come in contact witrh Snakes.
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Location: UK
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 5,551
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07-06-2009, 07:29 AM
Originally Posted by Gnasher
Because this "elderly pitbull" is very fit and healthy, and showing far too much interest in lethal snakes ! As we now know, Daddy et al are taken out into S California where snakes are prevalent and therefore the likelihood of death was extremely high.
Thing is, why take them out to a dangerous area when he could find other areas to exercise them? If you love your dog you do not expose it to danger intentionally.
If he is bowling along with them in all that California heat, no dog is going to stop to check out a snake if they are trying to keep up with him - so they may end up simply running too near it accidentally, and end up dying from snake bite that way.
I can't even see the logic now of what he is doing....
Wys
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Location: Cambs
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 906
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07-06-2009, 08:51 AM
Originally Posted by Wysiwyg
(and I disagree completely with it, as my view is that if we can keep toddlers away from snakes without using pain, them we can also do it for dogs, right?)
I was thinking of maybe a special needs child who perhaps needs to be taught things in a different way to make them understand certain things, but no one would ever ever consider using pain as a way of teaching them right? I see it the same with dogs.
(I absolutely do not wish to offend anyone who has a special needs child, I am not comparing them with a dog.)
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Location: Elsewhere
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,227
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07-06-2009, 09:41 AM
Originally Posted by Wysiwyg
Thing is, why take them out to a dangerous area when he could find other areas to exercise them? If you love your dog you do not expose it to danger intentionally.
If he is bowling along with them in all that California heat, no dog is going to stop to check out a snake if they are trying to keep up with him - so they may end up simply running too near it accidentally, and end up dying from snake bite that way.
I can't even see the logic now of what he is doing....
Wys
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Another aspect of e collars is that for them to work, you have to set the dog up to fail, you know when you start this training that you are going to inflict pain on your dog and if the dog does not rise to the provacation then you will push them until they do. That to me is a major problem.
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