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ClaireandDaisy
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17-05-2009, 08:10 PM
A long time ago I had a friend whose teenage brother abused her small daughter. Because they grew up together, she knew there was nothing in his history that could have prompted it. However, he was socially backward, a bit behind the other boys mentally and physically, and probably felt inadequate We think he gravitated to abusing children because he felt he could control them - he felt he had the power over them. Let`s face it - there`s no `love` in abuse. It`s about power and selfishness.
I dfon`t know if that is true of other paedophiles, but I imagine the majority are incapable of relationships on an equal level.

eta: castration would not stop or cure a paedophile. Sex is mostly in the brain.
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CheekyChihuahua
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17-05-2009, 11:30 PM
Originally Posted by Daysleeper40 View Post
Understanding what has shaped someone's personality doesn't mean that you find their deviant behaviour acceptable or are excusing it in any way.

To say you "know the pain it causes so you wouldn't do it to someone else" is a far too simplistic way of considering what feelings you would go through if abused as a child - particularly by a parent. Just for a second try to imagine the confusion and how this might completely warp your own perception of love / sex / relationships. That is not to say all paedophiles have been abused, or all children who have been will become paedophiles.

I don't think there is one simple answer to the nature / nurture debate. I doubt very much that all paedophiles/rapists/murderers do what they do for the same reason. One thing I'm pretty sure of is that we all have the potential to do these things - whether it is because of a chemical imbalance / brain injury / traumatic event / mental or physical abuse. We are also not born with an understanding of what is deemed right / wrong in the society that we happen to live in - that definately has to be learned.

Sorry, no matter what happens in a persons life, they know right and wrong. Even if they don't get it from their homelife, they would get that from being in the world, from listening to the laws of this Country!

To me Paedophiles are swamp creatures. Like so many other things in this Country, we need to stop making excuses for these monsters and treat them accordingly.

If somebody grows up with thieves for parents and go on to be a shoplifter, nobody makes excuses for them that they didn't know better. However, these individuals that find children irresistable to fulfill their sick sexual urges, have excuses made for them regarding their past/their childhood..................

A very close friend of mine was sexually abused by her Brother when she was 11 and he was late teens. It has damaged her whole life! This monster had the same upbringing as my friend, so has no excuse whatsoever for being so vile. Would my friend ever abuse her children, not for a second. She spends her whole life (thirty years later) trying to put together what happened to her as a child, dealing with emotions that she wants to put behind her but can't. She's had numerous counselling sessions but nothing can wipe her memory of what happened to her.

I wouldn't want to understand these people. They are selfish individuals that wreck lives!
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Meg
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18-05-2009, 04:41 PM
Is It In Us, Or Do We Develop These Behaviours?
(and blame the deed not the breed)

If we try to look at it logically we have three options.
..the behaviour is 'in us' ,
..we develop the behaviour,
..a combination of the two.
Firstly the behaviour is 'in us'
Assuming the behaviour is 'in us', the cause could be some kind of genetic predisposition or as I pointed out in an earlier post (and for which there is growing scientific evidence) a defect/injury to/chemical imbalance in the brain could be responsible.
If this is the case the behaviour could be described as a 'birth defect' similar to a physical birth defect and this type of handicap usually elicits our sympathies

Secondly 'developed behaviour'.
If the behaviour has developed it may well be as studies have suggested the result of mistreatment/ abuse in childhood, if this is the case again it should surely elicit our understanding,
Thirdly it could be a combination of the two things.

There is a very fine line between what some people consider 'normal' behaviour and others consider deviancy.
I think it was Keats who wrote..

''No puppet master pulls the strings on high,
A twisted nerve, a ganglion gone awry,
Predestine the sinner or the saint.''

Any one of us could be born with the 'ganglion' or 'twisted nerve' which predestines our behaviour.

I make absolutely no excuses for the revolting abhorrent behaviour of paedophiles but I am interested in understanding why they do what they do. With a clearer understanding of the behaviour may come better prevention and solutions...

(NB I am aware of Vicki's past experiences, we have discussed them before and I in no way condone the behaviour which caused her family so much distress).
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Hevvur
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18-05-2009, 04:45 PM
Originally Posted by CheekyChihuahua View Post
Sorry, no matter what happens in a persons life, they know right and wrong. Even if they don't get it from their homelife, they would get that from being in the world, from listening to the laws of this Country!

To me Paedophiles are swamp creatures. Like so many other things in this Country, we need to stop making excuses for these monsters and treat them accordingly.
Totally agree with this!
I know people who were abused as children (mentally, sexually, physically), but they didn't grow up to do the same things.
They knew what was right, and what was wrong, and made their own decisions to make the most out of their lives.
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Brundog
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18-05-2009, 05:23 PM
Originally Posted by Hevvur View Post
Totally agree with this!
I know people who were abused as children (mentally, sexually, physically), but they didn't grow up to do the same things.
They knew what was right, and what was wrong, and made their own decisions to make the most out of their lives.
I am in the same position myself, from a very personal point of view, and the abuser has gone on to have his own kids, in complete denial about what he is, never been prosecuted due to lack of evidence, (and family pressure not to charge ( as a family member) )yet feel quite sure that this is a cycle that will be repeated.

this person has a brother who is perfectly normal and one thing i would say is that this person is also life and soul of the party and you would never ever think/suspect what he actually is.......in fact its usually just the opposite people have no idea and they are well liked individuals.

Its also all about power and not much to do with sex just control.
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greyhoundk
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18-05-2009, 06:22 PM
Lets face it if we understood why, then we'd be as bad as them wouldn't we ?
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Daysleeper40
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18-05-2009, 08:26 PM
Originally Posted by CheekyChihuahua View Post
Sorry, no matter what happens in a persons life, they know right and wrong. Even if they don't get it from their homelife, they would get that from being in the world, from listening to the laws of this Country!

To me Paedophiles are swamp creatures. Like so many other things in this Country, we need to stop making excuses for these monsters and treat them accordingly.

If somebody grows up with thieves for parents and go on to be a shoplifter, nobody makes excuses for them that they didn't know better. However, these individuals that find children irresistable to fulfill their sick sexual urges, have excuses made for them regarding their past/their childhood..................

A very close friend of mine was sexually abused by her Brother when she was 11 and he was late teens. It has damaged her whole life! This monster had the same upbringing as my friend, so has no excuse whatsoever for being so vile. Would my friend ever abuse her children, not for a second. She spends her whole life (thirty years later) trying to put together what happened to her as a child, dealing with emotions that she wants to put behind her but can't. She's had numerous counselling sessions but nothing can wipe her memory of what happened to her.

I wouldn't want to understand these people. They are selfish individuals that wreck lives!
Maybe read my post again but I'll say it again - understanding why someone does these things doesn't mean you accept or excuse their behaviour.

What might happen is you learn something - something that might help you identify these urges / behaviours in other people and prevent them from ruining someone elses life.

I could wheel out my own personal experience of sexual abuse and what it does to you but I learnt long ago that applying anger and disgust doesn't really get you very far. People do things for a reason - given that we live in a country where the death penalty has been abolished I would rather take the opportunity to learn what I can from these people rather than just shout about how disgusting they are and hope that they go away. They won't.
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CheekyChihuahua
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18-05-2009, 09:43 PM
Originally Posted by Daysleeper40 View Post
Maybe read my post again but I'll say it again - understanding why someone does these things doesn't mean you accept or excuse their behaviour.

What might happen is you learn something - something that might help you identify these urges / behaviours in other people and prevent them from ruining someone elses life.

I could wheel out my own personal experience of sexual abuse and what it does to you but I learnt long ago that applying anger and disgust doesn't really get you very far. People do things for a reason - given that we live in a country where the death penalty has been abolished I would rather take the opportunity to learn what I can from these people rather than just shout about how disgusting they are and hope that they go away. They won't.
Nobody is shouting, just repulsed!!! I don't want to understand them. It's like its justifying that there may be a reason that they ruin childrens' lives to satisfy themselves. I'd rather educate my kids to never trust anybody outside the family and never let them be in a position to be abused (as much as is humanly possible).
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Lucky Star
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18-05-2009, 10:07 PM
Originally Posted by Daysleeper40 View Post
Maybe read my post again but I'll say it again - understanding why someone does these things doesn't mean you accept or excuse their behaviour.

What might happen is you learn something - something that might help you identify these urges / behaviours in other people and prevent them from ruining someone elses life.

I could wheel out my own personal experience of sexual abuse and what it does to you but I learnt long ago that applying anger and disgust doesn't really get you very far. People do things for a reason - given that we live in a country where the death penalty has been abolished I would rather take the opportunity to learn what I can from these people rather than just shout about how disgusting they are and hope that they go away. They won't.
I can understand that point of view completely BUT as a mother ... if someone did anything to my little girl I would exert my maternal justice and I hope the same kind of understanding given to these people would be applied to me. I do, however, wonder if it would, in these times?
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Brundog
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18-05-2009, 10:11 PM
Originally Posted by Lucky Star View Post
I can understand that point of view completely BUT as a mother ... if someone did anything to my little girl I would exert my maternal justice and I hope the same kind of understanding given to these people would be applied to me. I do, however, wonder if it would, in these times?
sadly no it wouldnt and unless something can be proven beyond reasonable doubt then its often not even prosecuted and then said person can live a normal life as you cant do anything about it !! could go on to work with kids, have their own and probably abuse again.

also in response to CC post
I'd rather educate my kids to never trust anybody outside the family
- Family is not always a safe place either sadly...
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