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View Poll Results: Poll - Do you agree you should be alpha male over your dog?
Yes 70 39.33%
No 71 39.89%
Other, please specify 37 20.79%
Voters: 178. You may not vote on this poll - please see pinned thread in this section for details.



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Lottie
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17-04-2009, 02:15 PM
Originally Posted by Gnasher View Post
Mahooli : talk to any dog warden ! Talk to any dog behaviourist. You just CANNOT have dogs going around biting people !! Growling a warning, yes, of course. Gosh, the number of times Hal growled at me and OH, the old git. But bite? Snap? Never !!

I can't believe I am reading your words.

When the heck did I say she BIT me?!! Because if I did, I need to go edit! And apologise to my dog!

Any of the occasions IN THE PAST that my dog has snapped at me she could easily have bitten me. I did not move away, she could've easily bitten me had she wanted to.

She didn't want to... in the past when she had the location guarding issues, she would snap near me, yes. And that was unacceptable but it was all down to anxiety and being someone who suffers anxiety myself, I completely understood her reaction and I worked with her to build her tolerance so she was more comfortable with that. Now, I can call her off of a spot or even move her by the collar (where she used to react due to being collar shy) with no reaction - because I worked WITH her.

Nowadays if I ever get a snap - it is literally, her snapping at the air, nowhere near me. It's simply to say 'ouch that hurts' or 'please don't push me'. She never snaps near me, she snaps in the air, like a verbal snap that I would give if I were feeling the same way.

To me that is perfectly acceptable, she is not a danger to anyone. She is simply communicating her feelings in a way that we both understand.

You don't know me, you don't know my dogs so please, refrain from judging me.
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Gnasher
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17-04-2009, 03:11 PM
With the greatest of respect Lottie, you didn't say air snapping, you said snapping. In my vocab a snap is a bite, or as near as makes no difference.

I don't know you, or your dogs, most us on Dogsey don't know each other or our dogs, but we make judgements from what we are told. And I am trying to point out to you that it is not at all acceptable for your dogs, my dogs, or anyone else's dogs to snap at you, me or anyone !

In today's anti dog society, I feel our dogs have to be squeaky clean ! I was just very worried that you might one day find yourself in a situation where one of your pooches had snapped at - whether it be the air, or actual flesh - a third party. You could end up losing your dog, which is dreadful. You have gone on to elaborate, and it sounds like you are doing really well, so I am sorry if I was judgemental, but the way you presented the situation was to me very worriesome. I'm a lot happier now !
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Lottie
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17-04-2009, 03:23 PM
Originally Posted by Gnasher View Post
I'm a lot happier now !
Oh well I'm glad someone is...

In the future perhaps you could ask for an elaboration before jumping down peoples' throats (and in return I will work on being more careful about how I put things). Then you may prevent yourself from risking the emotions of others who are trying damn hard with their dogs (dogs, who by the way, have made the biggest impact imaginable) and getting criticism from people for being too harsh, too soft, worrying too much or not worrying enough!

I will never get it right by everyone so I have decided to stick to what I want, what I believe and stuff anyone wishes to make harsh judgements without finding out the facts first... doesn't mean it doesn't bother me though.
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Wysiwyg
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17-04-2009, 03:46 PM
Originally Posted by Minihaha View Post
Hi Wys all very interesting . I know about the Fishers turn around, it's so sad he died when he did, I think had he lived he would have gone on to join the 'new behaviourists' and would have helped to influence the thinking on the dominance theory.
Yes, me too Mini. I think he would have remained a big influence on dog training and behaviour. He already organised the APDT and the APBC with other people, he's done so much. I have total admiration for him.
I have got a book of JFs somewhere, I will have to dig it out and re read it , wish there were more hours in a day .
John Fisher, or Jan Fennell?

I think John Fisher wrote some great books, he was the best at showing things from the dog's point of view. I loved him for that, and he opened my eyes a lot too when I did one of his courses. I feel I owe him quite a bit


The Blackwell and Casey sounds interesting, I will keep an eye out for that. Even if not availibale to the general public it will probably be referenced by many in years to come .
Yes definitely, it will.
I will try to get a copy for you if I can Not sure when it will be out, but it should be this year.

Wys
x
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Wysiwyg
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17-04-2009, 03:51 PM
Originally Posted by Louise13 View Post



So what does the alpha wolf do?? all of the above?
The peeps who coined the term alpha wolf don't use it any more though as they feel it's not appropriate.

*ducks*



Wys
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Wysiwyg
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17-04-2009, 03:54 PM
Originally Posted by Gnasher View Post
With the greatest of respect Lottie, you didn't say air snapping, you said snapping. In my vocab a snap is a bite, or as near as makes no difference.
In a rush posting but a snap isn't considered a bite, it's quite different

Re the "ladder of aggression" Shepherd, and others.

Wys
x
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Hammer
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17-04-2009, 03:58 PM
Sorry, haven't got time to read all the replies, but going back to the original question...I voted other.

I'm the boss...I set the boundaries, I tell Benson where he can and cannot go, I decided what he eats, where he walks etc etc.However, I'm not the 'alpha'...my wife is!

See all the stuff I said above about me and Benson? Replace 'I' with 'my wife' and 'Benson' with 'me' and that pretty much sums up my house

PS...I did almost buy into all the alpha male nonsense a couple of years back. And then I paid a ridiculous amount of money for one of Jan Fennells Dog Listeners to come to my house and within 15 minutes the alpha male theory was dead in my mind. Sorry, but what a load of old tosh.
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Vodka Vixen
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17-04-2009, 03:59 PM
I guess i'll have to go other??

I hate being pigeon holed but I dont think i could call myself "alpha" I am more.......mummy

I expect, respect and good manners, I am the adult, this is my house and I have rules, but they stand for the human residents too.

My dogs give me respect and have good manners mainly because i am the one who feeds them, gives them shelter, cuddles, playtime, walks.

Do they always do as i say? I wish!! No, they are individual animals who can think independently of me and ultimately they will choose whether something is worth doing or not, they are well behaved dogs but they are not perfect, they have their moments but i love them all the more for it as it makes them who they are

Our household consists of 1 adult, 1 child, 2 dogs and 5 cats, i expect all the residents to respect each other, animal or human and we all live together very peacefully (most of the time).

This wasnt acheived by asserting myself as "pack leader" or being the "alpha male" (i hate that male bit too) but respecting my dogs as dogs and caring for their needs just as i do my child.

So, yes we should all live in harmony but there still has to be rules and boundries, just as in the human world.

This is my house, so i am in charge, unless someone else wants to pay the bills
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Lottie
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17-04-2009, 04:07 PM
Originally Posted by Vodka Vixen View Post
I guess i'll have to go other??

I hate being pigeon holed but I dont think i could call myself "alpha" I am more.......mummy

I expect, respect and good manners, I am the adult, this is my house and I have rules, but they stand for the human residents too.

My dogs give me respect and have good manners mainly because i am the one who feeds them, gives them shelter, cuddles, playtime, walks.

Do they always do as i say? I wish!! No, they are individual animals who can think independently of me and ultimately they will choose whether something is worth doing or not, they are well behaved dogs but they are not perfect, they have their moments but i love them all the more for it as it makes them who they are

Our household consists of 1 adult, 1 child, 2 dogs and 5 cats, i expect all the residents to respect each other, animal or human and we all live together very peacefully (most of the time).

This wasnt acheived by asserting myself as "pack leader" or being the "alpha male" (i hate that male bit too) but respecting my dogs as dogs and caring for their needs just as i do my child.

So, yes we should all live in harmony but there still has to be rules and boundries, just as in the human world.

This is my house, so i am in charge, unless someone else wants to pay the bills
Sorry... had to say I loved this post (it pretty much echoes my feelings but better articulated) and you are SO getting reppies for it!

Especially loved the bit about the bills...
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Vodka Vixen
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17-04-2009, 04:11 PM
Originally Posted by Lottie View Post
Sorry... had to say I loved this post (it pretty much echoes my feelings but better articulated) and you are SO getting reppies for it!

Especially loved the bit about the bills...
Awwww fanks Lottie
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