I admit that I have smacked my dogs, in their youth, in order that I don't have any need to do it now. When engaged in any unacceptable behaviour, they used to get a slap on the @*5e, accompanied by the word "SMACK!", in a bad-tempered voice. The smack itself was "designed" to catch the dog's attention in an unpleasant manner, not to cause any real pain. The result has been as hoped: now, when "a crime is pending", a growly "Do you want a smack?" is enough to get them sidling off, looking guilty. Only very, very rarely does the warning get to "shouted" level, if it isn't heeded first time.

Snorri

I am just saying that in certain circumstances, with certain dogs and CORRECT usage with proper training, they can be useful and could help save a dog from serious injury or death.

I would rather more people knew how they can be used properly than to simply use them as aversion therapy. The idea that they are cruel full-stop is a misconception based upon incorrect usage IMO.

Incidentally, the way Cesar Millan used an e-collar on the cattle dog is NOT the way I would approve of. He merely used the shock as a simple aversion to the unwanted behaviour and NOT as a disciplinary aid to training.

This is how an e-collar can be used i.e. to the same effect, but at a distance, when off-lead for example.

He shocked the dog to stop it doing something, that is the only way to use one. It can be prettified with the right words can't it...'pulse' 'static' that sort of thing...but it's still shocking a dog to get it to stop doing something....it isn't nice, it isn't pleasant and it shouldn't be done. End of.There isn't a 'nice' or 'proper' way...

That's got nothing to do with this topic. This thread is about owners shocking or smacking their dogs.

I'd not ever smack a dog now, although in the past I have done - last time was probably over 20 years ago.

I've learnt that if a dog is well trained (and I've done this with reward based training) there is no need to smack or punish in any way, as any problem is due to the owner/lack of suitable training, not the dog!

So there!

Hear hear.

More nonsense.

My husband who lectures in Electricity tells me that the current is AC , the battery uses an inverter to step up the voltage, charge is stored in the capacitor, you hit the button and you shock the dog.

That is not a Static shock, no matter what anyone calls it.
Static is a build up of electricity between a man made material and a natural one.

My point was that the e-collar should be used to shock the dog OUT of its frenzy and at the same time INTO listening to your commands and not simply as an aversion to the behaviour per se. Or as Snorri put it, to CATCH the dog's attention. The priority is getting your dog to listen to you even while tempted to behave in a compulsive or obsessive way, not to simply shy away from the compulsive behaviour because it results in getting hurt.

CM didn't use it to catch the dog's attention. He did not give the dog any commands or instruction or any praise. He used it simply as an aversion therapy and nothing more.

I am sure Snorri didn't simply smack his dog until he learnt that whenever he did such and such it hurt, until he stopped doing it. I imagine Snorri probably taught his dog to listen to his 'leave it' or 'down' or whatever command and used the 'smack' as he says to 'catch' the dog's attention when he was tempted to disobey. As Snorri moved on to only using the word 'smack', so the e-collar use is moved to vibrate or sound.

It's about teaching your dog to listen to you even while there are extreme distractions around. Granted that for most dogs this is easily achieved through positive training methods, but for SOME dogs in SOME circumstances, the compulsive or obsessive behaviour has reached such heights as to be a threat to the dog's life and some DISCIPLINE is needed in addition to the positive methods if the problem is to be addressed in time to prevent injury or death.

If you don't believe in disciplining dogs AT ALL, then you will never approve of e-collars, but if you DO, they can be very useful for giving discipline off-lead or at a distance.

'Giving discipline'...the very phrase sends shudders down my spine, I think you should swap the words and change them into what they really mean 'inflicting pain'. That's what you're doing.

Do I believe in 'disciplining dogs'? I tell my dogs 'no' and I remove them from a situation if they are being nutters but that's about it. I have no need to 'give discipline' as it is explained in your post, no. I will tell my dogs off,but I certainly won't hurt them.

Your ecollar trainer has done a very good job with you...persuading you that you are not hurting your dog you are merely 'giving discipline'....we wishy washy trainers know nothing blah di blah di blah...