I only got to the 4th page and realised this would be a moster post if I kept reading so excuse me if any of the points have been covered.
Originally Posted by
boobah
Have to agree,I'm for abolishing too.If they wont abolish I'd prefer punters bets to include a fee (a high one at that)to help fund Greyhound rescues to look after these lovely dogs when and if they are needed to be rescued,xxxxxxxx
This is where the 'welfare reforms' argument is totally screwed. NO amount of money will but HOMES for every gryehound "retiring" from racing each year. When 8000+ non greyhounds are being pts each year becuase there are no homes for them, what chance does a 3 to 4 year old greyhound have? MOney wont' buy more people to take a dog on. The industry NEEDs the numbers of dogs that are bred to have an industry in the first place so a reduction in numbers bred won't work either. And we have a consultant vet who has spoken out and said greyhounds do not have the nature of a dog that should be kenneled so keeping them in rescue kennels for long long periods of time isnt' much of an alternative to pts.
Originally Posted by
I-mac77
Very interesting reading here, and I wonder how many of those comments are due to media hype! The media only ever show the negative side, and believe it or not here in the UK we are one of the good guys with regards to greyhound racing.
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Finally, I think there is a great problem with the Retired Greyhound rescue centers, most are too stringent,picky or on a power trip. I have witnessed potential owners that have been turned down for the most stupid of reasons. Where others because they can make a big donation have been allowed to own an unappropriate dog. One of the reasons ex-racers are dumped is because they can't get into the rescue centers, so if rescue centers could be more realistic in their assessments of potential owners then many more dogs could pass through their doors.
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I don't think racing should be abolished, but I do think tighter controls are required. There are many people that love these dogs, and love seeing them at their best. These same people ensure that their dogs go home or are found loving homes. I also think that without racing, the Greyhound has no place in the modern UK!
So many points I want to respond to but I'll stick to three...
Your first point. I've seen it PERSONALLY, for myself with my own eyes. I've done a lot of undercover work, done several tracks, stud farms, kennels and puppy auctions in Scotland, England, Northern Ireland and South of Ireland. I've also sat in Durham Magistrates and Crown Court behind David Smith listening to evidence about what HE did to greyhounds. I can assure you the media didn't hype what went on there enough. I've also been involved in investigations into other such establishments STILL going on in the UK today. That isn't media hype. Thats experience.
Second point about rescue centres. When I'm rehoming a greyhound I am picky and extremely choosy on where one of my dogs go. If I wouldn't leave my own dogs in a home, I wouldn't rehome one there. My reasoning is that these dogs ahve been through enough and it takes time and energy for anyone to take ona gryehound who frequently have no idea how to act or behave in 'normal' situations. They frequently have had no kind of puppyhood and struggle with day to day life. They arent' socialised with other dogs or animals and it takes time to resettle them. Now. For each time a dog 'bounces' from a home, it causes the dog more damage. It becomes unsettled and can pick up bad habits. If you slate rescues for taking time to ensure a dog goes to a home where it can settle and won't 'bounce' then you have no understanding of pets OR people. To some extent I agree with the ego thing however thats people for you. Which is why I prefer dogs.
Your third point. Why would a breed that has been around for thousands of years become extinct because racing ends? And to be honest, if it meant that no greyhound would suffer or die prematurely, then its a price I would be prepared to pay...
Originally Posted by
I-mac77
My comment was that most people who own greys to race, aren't in it to make money as there is none to be made! It is the minority that are in it to make money. And they are the ones who will dump the dogs, so that is was needs to be addressed. Make it impossible to dump the dogs! It is improving all the time but has a long way to go!
Sorry but untrue. None of the dogs I have picked up have come from people who make money from them.
It would be impossible NOT to dump dogs (although my definition of dumping is also "giving" them to an under resourced, over stretched rescue) - see above for my opinion on why.
Originally Posted by
I-mac77
There is also a difference between dumping and putting a dog up for rehoming at the end of it's career. There are many who are unable to take their dogs home for whatever reason. And remember retired greyhounds at the rehoming centres are still being paid for by their owners.
And what is the difference between that and a show'er placing their dog up for rehoming once it no longer makes the grade as that happens a hell of a lot too. The only difference is that it is easy to get rid of a show dog there are no laws protecting them.
Theres no difference in my book to dumping or rehoming and thats rubbish that most pay for their dogs until they are rehomed. SOME do through the RGT but very very few.
There are no laws to prevent anyone getting rid of a greyhound. The NGRC aren't interested at all if you phone up with ear marks - they blame the flapping tracks as always and claim the dogs have been sold on. Its rare (think hens teeth) for the NGRC to take anyone to task about dumping a dog.
Originally Posted by
I-mac77
I1. didn't mean that you are niave, but how many who have posted comments have actually been to greyhound racing kennels, and actually had involvement with greyhound racing? Very few if any I bet! The media only reports on the negative because that's what sells papers. Go and buy the Greyhound star, you'll get both positive and negative comments!
2. Because I would condemn anyone that has stood idiolly by whilst the Negatives have happened! PLease could you tell me how they greyhounds are made to chase! Every dog that is on the track are ones that chose to chase. Jade is one that chose not to!
3. Yes I consider those the lucky ones because they are the ones that were killed rather than have identifying marks removed whilst alive and then dumped! I didn't say it was right! Why don't the NGRC use DNA records, the technology is out there, it would cut down the number of dogs dumped then! It is a minority, how many greyhounds were bred last year, compared to the number to have these trajic consequences!
4. And why are these dogs kept in licensed kennels! Because people aren't allowed to train their own dogs! So in your opinion you think that stopping people from owning a greyhound unless they can take it home would solve the problem do you. Yes in the long run, it would lower the numbers being bred, but in the meantime the situation would get a whole lot worse. Plus this is part of the problem for the abuse some of these suffer! Because the owner is responsible for the care of the dog, until ownership is signed over, dogs are cut apart so they can't get identified!
5. There is less racing as unlicensed track are now illegal as they were seen as cruel! Very few licensed tracks have closed in recent years! And as already stated, breeders make little money, it is the owners of the good dogs being bred from that make the money!
6. Some greyhounds aren't suited to home life (only a minority though)
7.Finally, my point isn't that greyhound racing is fine, in fact far from it. But the media would have you believe that everyone involved is in it for the money, and people only own the dogs to make money. This is far from the truth, most trainers get involved because they love the dogs, there is only a small amount of money made in training. Although the trainers that are fortunate enough to have a great racer in their kennels are likely to sucessful financially too. They are a minority though! I'd ask you to find me an average trainer that is wealthy!
I';ve numbered your points because I'm on tehlaptop and its easier!
POint 1 - I have experience as already mentioned. Its made me more determined to do all I can to end the "sport". I don't quite get what your point is there? There isn't enough in the media about it and it rarely says anything about people making money from them.
Point 2 - greyhounds aren't made to chase. Its an instinct in greyhounds to run. Even more so if they've been couped up in kennels for hours before hand... I'd much rather see a greyhound run free and play - playing is punished by disqualification in greyhound racing.
Point 3 - Because the NGRC don't really care what dogs die. If they did we'd see owners and trainers being struck fof left right and centre. The industry is about the integrity of the sport and NOT the welfare of their waste product. Which brings me on to the RGT which is simply PR for the industry who can hold it up and "show" they look after their waste product when they've finished exploiting it.
POint 4 - Dogs cut apart? Yes ears are removed on occasion BUT mostly they're not because no one cares if the dog can be identified or not - whats the worst that can happen to the person who dumps it? They just say they sold it on and forgot to complete the paperwork.
Point 5 - Racing on unlicensed tracks is NOT banned. NGRC tracks ARE closing. Most of the big ones are likely to close over the next few years as they are slowly being sold off. Its a dying sport.
Point 6 - Some greyhounds aren't suited to a home life? I keep hearing about these dogs who aren't suitable to be rehomed yet I've never met one. And if they do exist I suspect thats more down to lack of socialisation etc that they don't get to experience. the psychological and physiological needs of a greyhound are not considered becuase the industry and those involved dont' really care about what happens to them once they are finished with.
Point 7 - I can show you a wealthy trainer! ONe who uses 'charity' (RGT) to rehome their dogs once they're finished with them.
I dont' get this 'media hype' thing at all. Very little is published. Unless you think the exposed mass destruction of greyhounds is 'hype'?
Originally Posted by
Jackbox
Even if it was banned, it would not stop, look at all the other animal welfare laws...docking/hunting, they are all a farce.
What about the Horse Racing industry.... now there is a sport that needs tighter regulations.... who cries for them.
Can you ever see "horse racing" be abolished.!
Okay. You can hide coarsing, hunting with dogs whatever. How do you possibly HIDE a greyhound racing track which would need to be mobile, crowds of dogs - say 100+ to have a decent race meeting AND hide crowds of people to watch? How on earth can greyhound racing go 'underground'. IN the several states in the US that have banned greyhound racing NOT ONE has reported underground racing. And the US has bigger land mass than the UK. Ialways think that is the most ridiculous argument.
as for horse racing. I despise horse racing and there are several campaigns targetting that "sport". However I don't have four horses lying on my couch, I have four greyhounds. So what has horse racing to do with banning greyhound racing? Another argument that always puzzles me.
Originally Posted by
Borderdawn
Excellent posts Imac and Jackbox. I am VERY pro Greyhound racing but get sick of being targeted for rescues to take a pop at, which is why I refrained till now.
The industry does need to change, more responsibility taken by owners and trainers, but NOT ALL owners and trainers, those that are at fault, who's dogs are discarded but can be traced easily enough. I spoke to a well known Greyhound rescue recently. Upon asking how many owners they try to trace through ear tattooes, she replied "none" I was astounded, she said that they did it a couple years ago but as only about half would donate financial help, so why bother? Why bother? For flips sake, if half offer to help, thats half the battle!
I will always be a fan of Greyhound racing, I never want to see it banned, I enjoy my friends who train, I enjoy watching their dogs train and being a part of that, always will.
Dawn.
You'll actually find rescues generally DON'T take a pop at racng people. Rescues tend to publicly criticise the 'anti's. The reason being if they say what they reallyt think of greyhound racing they run the risk of dogs being killed rather than handed over.
Thats noe the reason why rescues dont' harass owners for money - the reason is most of them dont' give a stuff once they've offloaded their dogs and the above applies re fear of hounds being killed rather than handed over.
Originally Posted by
I-mac77
Thank you, it is appreciated! I was pretty certain I wasn't alone
I get fed up of everyone criticising racing, based on media hype! I would be quite happy for someone to give examples of the atrocities they have personally witnessed, or some of the cruelty!
Media hype again! PLease explain because I have no idea what you mean!
If you want examples, which ones from the vast number I have seen do you want me to start?
My most recent was picking up a dog who had been sold from NGRC to flapping track guy who phoned and said come and get her within a few weeks. She came with a serious skin infection, stomach infection that damn near killed her, clotting problems with her blood and nerves shot to bits. She was in a horrendous state.
I could sit here all night and post examples and photos of the horrendous that I've seen. I can do that all night but wouldn't that just be accused of being 'propaganda'? Its DENYING that there is a problem which is the biggest fault of the greyhound industry. There is one - a big one. One which many owners and trainers admit to. But no one knows how to answer it and even when a group of influential trainers and owners got together (greyhoundvoice) to come up with ways of sorting the issue, the industry wasn't interested. To deny its happening is pointless or to dismiss it as media hype is wrong because even people involved in it know there is a serious problem.
But I still dont' get what your point is?