Hello Nelsons mum, my respects to you for answering the questions.

I posed them as you stated earlier that what you have been concerned about all day has been 'freedom of choice'.
Often this argument crops up in these sorts of discussions, but when you really think about it, the 'F of C' argument is a read herring, as there will be issues you believe in whereby someone, somewhere, eventually will complain about their 'lack of freedom of choice'.

For example, I happen to believe that all drugs should be decriminalised, taxed, and legislated for quality.
Personally, I dont take drugs, but think as an adult, it is my right to indulge in private leisure pursuits of my choosing.
But I wouldnt criticise authorities for curbing my freedom of choice, because someone can call me on that, as I support the docking ban.
So, for now, I will just accept that society says otherwise.

Docking and drugs bans can be equated, as the 'suffering' arguments for and against are similar: infant dogs feel the pain of docking/no they dont+they will feel more pain when they are older with damaged tails = soft drugs automatically leads to hard taking drugs + taking drugs automatically leads to addiction/no it doesnt + no, you can take any drug recreationally at erratic intervals for a whole lifetime without addiction, just as you can alcohol.

Also, I have no probs with swearing, and believe in freedom of speech and expression, as long as it isnt threatening.
Couldn't i say you are curbing my freedom of choice to express myself?

Re the smoking ban - naturally, lots of smokers will now be lining up complaining that you are curbing THEIR freedom of choice.

But that's an interesting one. As there are 2 competing freedom of choices here.
1) Freedom of Choice To Smoke - Smokers
2) Freedom Of Choice NOT TO Smoke - Non Smoker Passive Smokers.

Earlier, you posted that about the tip of the iceberg, the EU planning to ban health problem breed standards.
You complained about more curbs on Freedom of Choice, asking where will it end?

But i would point out, that this one equates with the smoking one
i.e; Your freedom of choice as a traditional breeder to breed to the standard V the dogs freedom of choice not to suffer health problems.

So, unless you are a true philosophical Libertarian, I honestly don't think freedom of choice is a point worth labouring in this discussion.

No offence intended.

Simple answer ?

££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££


Many, many, vets who used to dock stopped doing it when they realised they were causing suffering, numerous vets have put it in writing, there is plenty of documentation to back that up.
Read what they say here on this one site alone, there are many ex-docking vets on this list as well as those who have always refused to dock.

[ WARNING : The following link contains pictures of traditionally docked dogs with their tails intact, those opposed to the docking ban may find these images upsetting :smt077 ]

http://www.vetsagainstdocking.co.uk/...g.keypage.html

Those vets who have done it, who do have extensive experience of doing it with their own hands, are the ones whose comments you surely can not refuse to acknowledge...

Can I just squeeeeeeeeeeze a comment in here. Vets dont dock for money Patch, they dont ask much for it, last time I watched a Vet do it, a couple years ago, he charge £8 each pup including the dew claws!

Nelsons Mum,
1) Where does it say, officially, that the KC will refuse to register docked pups?
2) What evidence have you got that a pro-docking petition managed to get over half a million signatures when only a mere 3,000 odd could be mustered for the entire UK?
3) It's too late, pro-dockers have had decades to get their arguments right, problem is their arguments are flawed such as; dogs are docked to prevent tail injury, OK so why don't ALL breeds have a choice to be docked or not, flawed argument.
This thread was started on inaccurate statement, docking has been done to death.
Becky

Mine won`t nor any vet I have used in the past so you can add several to that one
My vet told me of a woman who tried to get him to dock litter which he refused to do and he found out later that she had to go as far as Birmingham to find one to do it `in time` so docking vets are pretty thin on the ground around here

Looks like this tail docking is still a touchy subject,going by the response its mainly anti-docking people who are voicing their opinion though, is it no-ones really interested or what?

My vet won't dock but not because she has any ethical objection, she tells me she hasn't, she just doesn't want the hassle from the BVA.
I am not sure of the whole basis for this thread. It seems very doubtful to me that the KC would deny registration to docked puppies as working pups can still be docked perfectly legally. In my breed there is a whole section of the breed club devoted to the working arm of the breed and I have seen nothing to suggest they will no longer be able to register with the KC. I think people have got it confused with the ability to show a docked puppy.

:smt019 :smt019 :smt019 :smt019 :smt019 :smt019 :smt019 :smt019 :smt019 :smt019 :smt019 :smt019 :smt019 :smt019 :smt019 :smt019 :smt019 :smt019 :smt019 :smt019 :smt019 :smt019 :smt043 :smt043 :smt043 :smt043 :smt043 :smt043 :smt043 :smt043 :smt043 :smt043 :smt043 :smt043 :smt043 hey shonas absent so thought i would boost your rasps for you

They might not make much from the individual docking but it helps keep the client, they can then make money on the puppies 1st vaccines, worming etc.

some breeds need their tails ie: newfoundlands, they use thier tails as rudders when swimming .